Finding your path.... Any path....

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[Áine]

Actually, it says in... oh, one of the gospels, I want to say John but I'm not sure and I just checked and NO ONE in my house has a Bible that in the beginning the son was with the father. 

I'm pretty sure it's John 1:1 NIV or KJV

The son did exsist, but had not yet been "born" as the god-man until the new testiment.

[Dania]

I always understood that Adam and Eve had a lot of children.

Ah see now I always thought they only had Cain and Able. But I could very well be wrong.

[Dania]

The son did exsist, but had not yet been "born" as the god-man until the new testiment.

That makes sense.

[Caomi_Brannon]

Ah see now I always thought they only had Cain and Able. But I could very well be wrong.

That's what I always understood. It says in Genisis that Cain went to the Land of Nod to find his wife. I don't know, I'll have to ask my lovely Druid boyfriend about that one. He was, afterall, going to be a Catholic Priest.

[Kasmira]

That's what I always understood. It says in Genisis that Cain went to the Land of Nod to find his wife. I don't know, I'll have to ask my lovely Druid boyfriend about that one. He was, afterall, going to be a Catholic Priest.

[disclaimer] I am not a bible scholar and have not studied to any point further than reading and interpreting it [/disclaimer]
Adam and Eve bore three sons, Cain, Abel and Seth. Cain slew Abel and left for the land of Nod where he begot Enoch with his un-named wife. His offspring were not followers of YHVH. Seth, who was born after Cain left begot Enos with an also un-named wife whose origins are not mentioned. Adam is said to have begotten other sons and daughters with Eve, none of them are named and no mention is made of any of them marrying one another. However, when I read the bible my interpretation is that at least Cain's wife, if not Seth's wife also are not of God's creation and are not related to Adam and Eve.

[juniperrr]

Greetings All -

 And that's all well and good, but my problem is that I don't know what I believe and I don't want to be wrong.

I know this will sound strange, but I feel if you are worried about doing it wrong, then you are doing it wrong. I mean, there is a whole lot of your upbringing beliefs very present still in your worldview, and you may benefit by giving yourself plenty time to figure out what is your own, personal Truth. I walked away from Catholicism over a period of years, and I did not even have to deal with being beaten for 'wrong thinking', as in your case when you asked an intelligent and appropriate question as a very bright 8 year old. Be good to yourself, explore what attracts you. As you study other religious options/philosophies and move more out of the Christian mindset (IF that is where you end up) I think you will lose the fear of eternal damnation.

I have no worries about it myself, but then the concept of heaven and hell means no more to me than a Grimm's fairy tale. I find the Gensis story an interesting creation myth, culturally intriguing but not any more true than the Bhagavagita stories of Krishna killing 18 foot tusked demons with one hand.

I guess that would explain why I am not Christian or Hindu!

[Darkhawk]

I'm a newbie poster here and would like some friendly advice and conversation. My need for advice centers around a question. How do you find your path, and stick to it when it goes against your upbringing?

Well, here's a question:  What, precisely, goes against your upbringing?

I'm not talking about belief here, because I have a hard time with the concept of belief as really relevant (being unverifiable as it is; anyone can say they believe something, after all).

What does your upbringing say about how to interact with other people?  About how to be the best person you can be?  About support for society?  About how families work?

What of that do you consciously reject (I gather some stuff about parenting as presented by your father would be some of that!)?

What of it do you retain?

And finally:

What set of practices, beliefs, whatever, best support that which you would maintain?

But again, having grown up in Christian religion, I don't want to 'piss God off'. I can't prove He's out there, but I can't prove He's not either.

Every so often I run into a fundie-Christian type who wants to know why I'm not driven by fear of hellfire into bowing down before their god.

And I go back to 'what supports what I would maintain', and note that I have commitments and obligations, have a system that helps me to become the best person I can be, best able to support myself, my partners, my family, and my community thereby, and that I'm flatly not selfish enough to sabotage the good of others to spare myself threatened pain.  A god who disagrees with that is ... well, the orthodox Christian position about what hell is is 'separation from god', and if a god disagrees with me about the merits of doing the right thing by the entities I'm committed to and the material world, separation therefrom looks like heaven.

[Áine]

As you study other religious options/philosophies and move more out of the Christian mindset (IF that is where you end up) I think you will lose the fear of eternal damnation.

You have to understand that this is a very difficult midset to overcome, especially when you grow up with it.  This sort of mindset is riddled with guilt that seeps into the mind, heart, and soul...there's a little voice in the back of your head that says "Well, what if it's true"...and that is not including (with some people) the environmental pressures to stay in Christianity (ie, family, pastors, youth groups etc).  So, you must have the courage to say "This is for me.  This is what I want. My faith is strong and there is nothing that you can say to change my mind."  Getting there is the process.

I know this will sound strange, but I feel if you are worried about doing it wrong, then you are doing it wrong.  

 

Again, this is a mental thing.  F'ex, You may feel like what you are doing is stupid, but that doesn't mean it is stupid.  

[Áine]

Every so often I run into a fundie-Christian type who wants to know why I'm not driven by fear of hellfire into bowing down before their god.

And I go back to 'what supports what I would maintain', and note that I have commitments and obligations, have a system that helps me to become the best person I can be, best able to support myself, my partners, my family, and my community thereby, and that I'm flatly not selfish enough to sabotage the good of others to spare myself threatened pain.  A god who disagrees with that is ... well, the orthodox Christian position about what hell is is 'separation from god', and if a god disagrees with me about the merits of doing the right thing by the entities I'm committed to and the material world, separation therefrom looks like heaven.

Well said.

[Jessica A]

I know this will sound strange, but I feel if you are worried about doing it wrong, then you are doing it wrong. I mean, there is a whole lot of your upbringing beliefs very present still in your worldview, and you may benefit by giving yourself plenty time to figure out what is your own, personal Truth. I walked away from Catholicism over a period of years, and I did not even have to deal with being beaten for 'wrong thinking', as in your case when you asked an intelligent and appropriate question as a very bright 8 year old. Be good to yourself, explore what attracts you. As you study other religious options/philosophies and move more out of the Christian mindset (IF that is where you end up) I think you will lose the fear of eternal damnation.

I have no worries about it myself, but then the concept of heaven and hell means no more to me than a Grimm's fairy tale. I find the Gensis story an interesting creation myth, culturally intriguing but not any more true than the Bhagavagita stories of Krishna killing 18 foot tusked demons with one hand.

I guess that would explain why I am not Christian or Hindu!

Juniper,

I'm with you on this for sure.  Now, I just received some pms from another forum that I just left.  1st one about told about some forums that she thought were geared to me.  Of course I just clicked on them, but left immediately.  My 1st response was thank you for them, but told her about my views and so on.  Plus, told her about this forum.  Her response was definetly negative for sure to me. 

[juniperrr]

You have to understand that this is a very difficult midset to overcome, especially when you grow up with it. 

I should have mentioned that I grew up an orthodox Catholic, spent my entire grade/jr/high school in the same small town Catholic school, went to Mass every day before school and of course every Sunday, read the Bible every afternoon, had religion class every afternoon, sang in the choir, volunteered my time after school to help the nuns clean the church (I only ever had nuns for teachers) and attended every Holy Day on my knees and got every Sacrament you get as a kid and every friend I had, our entire family and neighbors were devout Catholics. Yes, I do know what it's like to break away from that.

No one said it was easy. I said, if you feel your heart is taking you elsewhere, give yourself time to do it. And, having grown up in terrible fear of Satan, that in time it will mean less and less, IF that is the way you end up after serious soul searching. Christian beliefs are as interesting to me as any other religion, and valid for many people, but it has no meaning or power over me, now. But I am 55 and left Christianity when I was 18. Hence the concept of giving yourself some time and trust the fear of "pissing off God and eternal damnation" will fade, IF that is the way that is right for you.

[ShadowScape]

If I recall correctly, the plural in the original Hebrew was more of a royal 'we.'  I'm going by memory mind.

I could also see it as God addressing angels.  That's fairly irrelevant speculation.  Either way, I don't think it's necessary to assume that God is addressing fellow deities.

On a lighter note, Im suddenly feeling amused by the notion of pagan Biblical literalists.

As to "the notion of pagan Biblical literalists. " - it is an amusing idea but:

This thread is addressing the serious issue of someone who is afraid to try to find something to fill an obvious need in her life.

She is afraid because she has been brought up being told that there is only one god and that god will do dreadful things to her if she is not faithful.

I think people are quoting the bible to show that what she has been told should not be taken literally.

JCI followers claim that their god is the only god. Their supposedly "revealed truth" ie the Bible says otherwise.

Psalm 82:1 "God stands in the divine assembly,
                among the gods he dispenses justice"

and as I said earlier the Pentateuch is dripping with references to other gods. Many of them do not appear to be referring to idols.

The point of mentioning this is not to say the bible is to be taken as truth - quite the opposite in fact.

What I am having trouble understanding is how Celtic Revivalist can be having trouble with the concept if triplicity.

[Caomi_Brannon]

What I am having trouble understanding is how Celtic Revivalist can be having trouble with the concept if triplicity.

When I was following the Christian path, yes, I had quite a lot of problems with it. We were taught there was only one god, yet he was three different people. My little mind told me that The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost were different gods, but part of the same. And my preacher kept telling me this wasn't true. How could they all be a god, and be seperate, without all being gods in their own right? When they weren't acting as a unit they weren't gods?  That was my issue.

[ShadowScape]

When I was following the Christian path, yes, I had quite a lot of problems with it. We were taught there was only one god, yet he was three different people. My little mind told me that The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost were different gods, but part of the same. And my preacher kept telling me this wasn't true. How could they all be a god, and be seperate, without all being gods in their own right? When they weren't acting as a unit they weren't gods?  That was my issue.

Irish Celtic mythology has gods that have multiple emanations/avatars. It is still the same god just a different aspect of the god (not talking about the maiden, mother, crone theory). Gods are not bound by the same physical restrains as we are so why could they not have multiple emanations/avatars that are still the same god. The Morrigan and Nuadhu are two that spring readily to mind.

[Caomi_Brannon]

Irish Celtic mythology has gods that have multiple emanations/avatars. It is still the same god just a different aspect of the god (not talking about the maiden, mother, crone theory). Gods are not bound by the same physical restrains as we are so why could they not have multiple emanations/avatars that are still the same god. The Morrigan and Nuadhu are two that spring readily to mind.

I know this. I am a follower of The Morrigan. I'm saying when I was a Christian I had problems wrapping my head around it. We were taught one god. The end.

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