The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
September 28, 2022, 10:08:18 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 28, 2022, 10:08:18 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Definition of religion/religiousity?  (Read 5772 times)
Waldfrau
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:January 02, 2013, 06:41:55 pm
Germany Germany

Religion: polytheistic witch leaning towards Reclaiming
TCN ID: Waldfrau
Posts: 2903


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: January 11, 2008, 02:15:51 am »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

I'm very thankful for suggestions. It really bothers me that I can't talk to Christians on an equal basis, because I'm not regarded as a religious person. Isn't there a basis definition that would be very open?
Logged

My blog: http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/ (English and German entries)

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #1: January 11, 2008, 05:22:57 am »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

I'm very thankful for suggestions. It really bothers me that I can't talk to Christians on an equal basis, because I'm not regarded as a religious person. Isn't there a basis definition that would be very open?

These are the definitions I found from answers.com.  It doesn't say anything about the belief of good or evil.  Hope this helps some.

re·li·gi·os·i·ty (rĭ-lĭj'ē-ŏs'ĭ-tē) pronunciation
n.

   1. The quality of being religious.
   2. Excessive or affected piety.

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən) pronunciation
n.

   1.
         1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
         2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
   2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
   3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
   4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Logged
shawn
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:May 06, 2008, 12:05:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: celtic reconstructionist / irish
Posts: 78


Dedicated to Taranis. God of storms.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: January 11, 2008, 07:22:28 am »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

I'm very thankful for suggestions. It really bothers me that I can't talk to Christians on an equal basis, because I'm not regarded as a religious person. Isn't there a basis definition that would be very open?
Sadly there are some, that not matter how hard you try. Will not accept anything as religion but there own. To them it is a matter of good versus evil with them being good and all others being evil. The definition of good or evil is like the definition of beauty and ugly. It is in the eyes of the person looking at it. Hitler did not consider himself evil. If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Logged

It's raining,it's pouring.Storms are so adoring.
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 08, 2022, 10:59:47 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #3: January 11, 2008, 07:25:20 am »

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən) pronunciation
n.

   1.
         1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
         2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
   2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
   3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
   4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Whaddaya know - I don't have one.

Unless ya stretch the second-last definition and I count myself as my own spiritual leader.  I can do that, but I suspect whoever constructed the definition might have a problem with it.

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #4: January 11, 2008, 07:32:22 am »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

I would say that a religion is something that seeks to interact with the spiritual underpinnings of the world - whatever those underpinnings are.
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
shawn
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:May 06, 2008, 12:05:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: celtic reconstructionist / irish
Posts: 78


Dedicated to Taranis. God of storms.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: January 11, 2008, 08:01:35 am »

Whaddaya know - I don't have one.

Unless ya stretch the second-last definition and I count myself as my own spiritual leader.  I can do that, but I suspect whoever constructed the definition might have a problem with it.

Sunflower
Sure you do. Look at definition #4.
Logged

It's raining,it's pouring.Storms are so adoring.
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #6: January 11, 2008, 08:13:19 am »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

A section of this Wikipedia article has several examples (with references) of how religion is defined in academic fields -- or did when I read it just now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Quote
I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

Almost all religions attempt to answer the question of why there is evil (or things humans see as evil) in the world. The question becomes far more central to Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions as the JCI God is defined as all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, all-etc. which turns the question of why there is evil in the universe into a major problem as the JCI God and a universe with evil in it seem contradictory.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
catja6
Board Staff
Staff
Adept Member
***
Last Login:March 21, 2022, 04:36:11 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Posts: 1119


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #7: January 11, 2008, 10:01:18 am »



In folklore -- and you'll also find this definition (among others) kicking around the humanities and social sciences in general, but the emphasis on "narrative" makes it especially relevant to folklorists -- "religion" is that which exists to translate "myth" (sacred narratives) into meaningful experiences for human beings.  "Myths" are sacred narratives that enshrine the Big Cosmic Truths of a given culture -- how the world came to be, the proper relationship of human beings to the divine, what (if anything) happens after death.  Religion is the set of social structures -- rituals, liturgy, theology, practices, etc., etc., etc. -- that spring up around myth in order to make the narratives directly relevant to human life.  Pagan reliions are very obviously religions, as they include both myth and the structure to translate myth. 

When going for the general dictionary, remember that dictionaries reflect *general* usage, not specialist scholarly definitions.  In the West, which is SO dominated by Christianity, general definitions of "religion" often reflect Christian bias.
Logged
Juniper
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:January 06, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Hedgewitch with Neo-Wiccan leanings
TCN ID: Juniper
Posts: 1742


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #8: January 11, 2008, 12:19:52 pm »

Is there a definition of religion and religiousity that would include Pagan religions as well as JCI?

I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

I'm very thankful for suggestions. It really bothers me that I can't talk to Christians on an equal basis, because I'm not regarded as a religious person. Isn't there a basis definition that would be very open?

If they aren't going to talk to you as an equal then forget it- if you want to call yourself religious, then call yourself religious. And if those Christians that you mention aren't happy with that then so be it: that's their problem. You have a right to define yourself in any way you want when it comes down to spiritual matters.
Logged

'How she longed for winter then!-
Scrupulously austere in its order
Of white and black
Ice and rock; each sentiment within border,
And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
~Sylvia Plath
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 08, 2022, 10:59:47 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #9: January 11, 2008, 06:42:46 pm »

Sure you do. Look at definition #4.
I did.  I have quite a few things that would fit that definition.  Some, like humanism, certainly could be considered a religion.  Others, that's stretching it - I don't think that the conscientious devotion with which I pursue the principles of literary craftsmanship (spelling, grammar, word meaning and usage, effective construction, wit, etc) or of accurate historicity, just to name a couple, qualifies either one as "a religion".  What that deplorably sloppy definition seems to be getting at is the more colloquial sense of the word, e.g., "Stamp collecting is a religion with him."

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 08, 2022, 10:59:47 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #10: January 11, 2008, 06:44:13 pm »

A section of this Wikipedia article has several examples (with references) of how religion is defined in academic fields -- or did when I read it just now
Undecided

Wikcaveat.

Sunflower

ETA:  No, the article seems to still be fine; I was making a general comment.
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
loneash
Master Member
****
Last Login:June 12, 2010, 12:58:45 pm
United States United States

Religion: eclectic pagan
Posts: 737

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: January 11, 2008, 08:32:07 pm »

Whaddaya know - I don't have one.

Unless ya stretch the second-last definition and I count myself as my own spiritual leader.  I can do that, but I suspect whoever constructed the definition might have a problem with it.

Sunflower

If you have to take each of the 4 statements without any modification, then I also have no religion .

However if I can scrap the last fewwords of #3, I can say I have a religion.

I all depends on your outlook.  If you want to be hard a---- about things like many do, there is no talking to them.
Logged
Waldfrau
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:January 02, 2013, 06:41:55 pm
Germany Germany

Religion: polytheistic witch leaning towards Reclaiming
TCN ID: Waldfrau
Posts: 2903


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12: January 12, 2008, 05:44:54 am »


Thank you all for the answers & discussion! I have to think about what you said for a while.

I considered the collegue I mentioned a friend. Yesterday we broke up when she accused me of being an intolerant know-it-all.  Shocked I still have to digest the shock, I didn't see that accusation coming. But I guess the break-up was overdue for more personal than religious reasons.

I will come back later to this discussion, when I feel a bit better and ready to discuss this topic for its own sake (without personal drama). Maybe there'll be even more interesting posts to read from you all.

Have a nice weekend!
Logged

My blog: http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/ (English and German entries)
dragonfaerie
Coffee Goddess
Adept Member
*****
*
*
*
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 06:19:49 pm
United States United States

Religion: Witchcraft
TCN ID: dragonfaerie
Posts: 862


Priestess of the Circle of Amber Heart

Blog entries (0)

terpette terpette terpette
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: January 15, 2008, 11:05:55 am »

I'm at a loss for one. I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

Who defines good and evil?

I'd think that each religion would judge followers based on the ethical code of the religion. I'm Wiccan. I definitely have an ethical code that prescribes not doing evil... or, at least, not causing harm with forthought and malicious intentions. Just because a conservative Christian might think I'm "evil" because I think homosexuals should be allowed to marry (which doesn't interfere at all with my religion's ethical code) doesn't make me evil.

Sure, it's natural to judge others by your religious code. But if they are living right by their beliefs, then that has to be acceptable on some level (even if you completely disagree with them). BUT... if you aren't living right by your beliefs, then I don't think you have the right to throw stones at someone else for the way they're living... especially if you haven't taken the time to understand their ethics. I'm rather sorry your ex-friend didn't take the time to understand yours... but people like that aren't worth the headache and drama to keep around in your life. I've had to discard a few myself.

Karen
Logged

Writings on Wicca & Witchcraft
Read my journal!
Today's Mood Forecast:
Fanboy's Convention List
Hannibal
Journeyman
***
Last Login:March 02, 2010, 01:58:41 pm
United States United States

Religion: Kemetic Pagan
Posts: 120


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: January 15, 2008, 01:26:59 pm »

I had an argument yesterday with a Christian collegue who thinks all religions center around the question of good & evil.

 Good and Evil are human ideas and therefore have many flaws. It can easily be explained by an old phrase i read somewhere."Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" to simplfy this is to say that what is beatiful and what is not (good or evil,etc.) is purely dictated by who is speaking. Besides its usally better just to avoid people like your christian collegue if he/she judges religion by thier idea of good and evil.
Logged

"Es mejor morir de pie que vivir de rodillas."-Emiliano Zapata Salazar. Translation-It is better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
 ego mos reperio a via vel ego mos planto unus Translation-I will find a way or I will make one
http://dragcave.net/user/Hannibal

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Definition of a God « 1 2 3 »
Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu 30 10504 Last post June 06, 2008, 02:38:14 am
by Waldfrau
Your Definition of Magic? « 1 2 »
Miscellaneous Magical Discussions
RandallS 17 5352 Last post November 12, 2009, 09:16:16 pm
by Shadowolf
Can a Person, by TC's Definition, Be Pagan and Follow the Teachings of Jesus? « 1 2 ... 5 6 »
Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology
Pythuna 77 30823 Last post January 26, 2010, 12:42:46 am
by Dark Midnight
Your Definition of Clergy « 1 2 »
Paganism For Beginners
darashand 17 7044 Last post February 16, 2010, 05:52:00 pm
by Aster Breo
Your definition of Faith « 1 2 »
Faith in Everyday Life
Lovesdalionking 21 11388 Last post July 05, 2010, 08:58:09 pm
by Fyreflyes
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.242 seconds with 55 queries.