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Author Topic: So, here's a question.  (Read 21793 times)
Grymdycche
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« Reply #15: April 14, 2008, 04:57:06 pm »

Probably some are -- that's a risk the publishers took when they published the two original books (Eight Sabbats for Witches and The Witches Way) under this title. However, I think those who object to a book based on a title are generally just being silly. They certainly have the right to object, but its a title.
Hey, it's religion.. you never know .   Wink

It would, but only because neither "Koran" or "Talmud" are used to mean "a definitive work" in English.
I just now checked on the etymology of the word "Bible", and it's original meaning was simply "Book".  Nothing more!  I suspect the other texts had far more specific meanings. 

Back in 1984, the word "witch" was still claimed as solely meaning "British Traditional Wiccan" by some. However, I suspect the title was selected by the publisher's marketing people because they thought that title would sell more books.
Ah! hmm.. thanks..  I remember my books from the '70s, they were all labeled as "Witchcraft" books, I didn't hear of "Wicca" until the '80s.

It does have that authoritative ring to it.



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« Reply #16: April 15, 2008, 03:44:03 pm »

For studying and such, which books and authors do you recommend? Which ones should be avoid?

I also suggest Starhawks "The Earth Path,"  I love it.  Mind you, she is an eco-feminist, so this is very much about the nature of feminine power and influence in the natural world.
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #17: April 15, 2008, 05:03:59 pm »

For studying and such, which books and authors do you recommend? Which ones should be avoid? I know SRW is one, but anyone else? Just to mention, I've read Scott Cunningham's Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner.


That's a good one to have.  I like all of Scott's books. You might also want his, "The Truth about Witchcraft Today" for an overview. His Encyclopedias (Herbs, Gems, Oils, etc..)  are usually considered Wiccan classics.

Some of my favorites (not mentioned already) are by Issac Bonewits;  his Essential Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft was very enlightening;  it gives you a more brief overview than Ronald Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon", but if you want more detail, than definitely get Hutton's book too.  Margot Adler's "Drawing Down the Moon" is another classic along the same lines.   Back to Bonewits for a minute, I also highly recommend both his "Real Magic" (a classic) and his new "Real Energy", cowritten by his wife Phaedra.  Much to my surprise, while reading this just last night, I learned that the aforementioned author Deborah Lipp was once Issac's wife!  (Who knew?) It came during a passage where they recommended Deborah Lipp's book, "The Way of Four", so there's another good Lipp book for you - it discusses the Four Elements. 
A book I want (but have yet to own) is "Before you Cast a Spell" by Carl McColman;  it has high ratings and sounds like a solid foundation to build on.  There are probably several more I just can't think of right now.

I think newcomers (of which I am one myself) should spend more time in the research phase before casting too many spells;  for one, bad habits are hard to break, and unlearning misconceptions wastes time; for two, if you should do something dangerous without proper knowledge, preparation, or forewarning... well.. that speaks for itself.   Wink
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« Reply #18: April 15, 2008, 06:24:47 pm »

His Encyclopedias (Herbs, Gems, Oils, etc..)  are usually considered Wiccan classics.

Which has always struck me as odd considering these books are more about magic and follore than about Wicca.
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« Reply #19: April 15, 2008, 08:16:30 pm »


I think newcomers (of which I am one myself) should spend more time in the research phase before casting too many spells;  for one, bad habits are hard to break, and unlearning misconceptions wastes time; for two, if you should do something dangerous without proper knowledge, preparation, or forewarning... well.. that speaks for itself.   Wink

Yes, you can definitely do bad things to yourself and others. I am personally of the opinion that you shouldn't do unsupervised magic at all, if you have not done magical work before, particulularly spellwork. Find someone to help you and guide you, understand the basics of working with the elements and deities, underworld and otherworld and astral journeys, and know your guides.
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  And the power of Earth,
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« Reply #20: April 15, 2008, 08:18:19 pm »

Which has always struck me as odd considering these books are more about magic and follore than about Wicca.

I don't think it's odd, most of the stuff in those books is just plain old useful. I use the herbal and gem/metal encyclopedia and/or the incense and essential oils books just about every time and do magic.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #21: April 15, 2008, 09:15:06 pm »

I don't think it's odd, most of the stuff in those books is just plain old useful. I use the herbal and gem/metal encyclopedia and/or the incense and essential oils books just about every time and do magic.

Right, but they're not really Wiccan. They're useful, no doubt about it, but they're more magic focused than anything else.
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #22: April 15, 2008, 11:32:55 pm »

Right, but they're not really Wiccan. They're useful, no doubt about it, but they're more magic focused than anything else.

I suppose it's because Scott himself was Wiccan, so Wiccans identified with his books.  But others surely use them too.  Even J.K. Rowling has mentioned that she has his herbal encyclopedia and used it for reference for the Harry Potter books.   Wink
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« Reply #23: April 16, 2008, 02:14:40 am »

Right, but they're not really Wiccan. They're useful, no doubt about it, but they're more magic focused than anything else.

right, but I guess I just don't find it odd that lots of non- or neo- or whathaveyou- wiccans would love his incredible, loving and wise words. He is my magical granddaddy, I guess. I don't think he was that interested in making his particular religion the focus of all his work, and I don't think that attitude is uncommon among incredible, loving and wise people.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
LyricFox
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« Reply #24: April 16, 2008, 05:20:34 pm »

right, but I guess I just don't find it odd that lots of non- or neo- or whathaveyou- wiccans would love his incredible, loving and wise words. He is my magical granddaddy, I guess. I don't think he was that interested in making his particular religion the focus of all his work, and I don't think that attitude is uncommon among incredible, loving and wise people.

I guess I'm not making myself clear. It's not that the books aren't good resources (though I do shrink every time I get the St. Cunningham routine), it's that these books (his encyclopedias) aren't Wiccan. Wiccan's can find them useful and non-Wiccan's can find them useful. The point is, those books are not Wiccan. They're certainly user friendly and encompass some good information, but when people refer to them as Wiccan (and they do), it's not accurate.
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« Reply #25: April 16, 2008, 05:21:49 pm »

  But others surely use them too.  Even J.K. Rowling has mentioned that she has his herbal encyclopedia and used it for reference for the Harry Potter books.   Wink

I'm not saying non-Wiccans can't refer to them. I'm not saying they aren't useful. What I'm saying is they are not Wiccan books. Period. That's it.
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« Reply #26: April 16, 2008, 05:23:27 pm »

I suppose it's because Scott himself was Wiccan, so Wiccans identified with his books.  But others surely use them too.  Even J.K. Rowling has mentioned that she has his herbal encyclopedia and used it for reference for the Harry Potter books.   Wink

Let me see if I can't clear this up better. Randall's point and mind is referring to what you posted in reply 17 where you refer to the books as "Wiccan classics." The books aren't Wiccan. That's what we're saying. They're resources for magic, not a religion.
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #27: April 16, 2008, 05:46:29 pm »

Let me see if I can't clear this up better. Randall's point and mind is referring to what you posted in reply 17 where you refer to the books as "Wiccan classics." The books aren't Wiccan. That's what we're saying. They're resources for magic, not a religion.

I wasn't arguing the point,  but yup, I know what you mean.

I think it's a matter of semantics at this point. 
What one might call a "Wiccan classic", another might simply mean, "something considered a classic by Wiccans".   It might well be an Asatru classic too (or, considered a "classic" by Asatru, if you will), for all I know.   But that's really how I meant it.  It was not meant  possessively; as originating from (though it's worth mentioning the author was Wiccan!); or as 'pertaining specifically to' - I meant it as "favored and revered by".
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« Reply #28: April 16, 2008, 05:55:33 pm »

I wasn't arguing the point,  but yup, I know what you mean.

I think it's a matter of semantics at this point. 
What one might call a "Wiccan classic", another might simply mean, "something considered a classic by Wiccans".   It might well be an Asatru classic too (or, considered a "classic" by Asatru, if you will), for all I know.   But that's really how I meant it.  It was not meant  possessively; as originating from (though it's worth mentioning the author was Wiccan!); or as 'pertaining specifically to' - I meant it as "favored and revered by".

I know this is going to sound nitpicky as hell, but those semantics really are important. Probably more important on this board than on a lot of other pagan boards where the conversations aren't aimed at debate and discussion.

You're definitely right when you say many Wiccans consider it a classic book. But that's totally different from saying "it's a Wiccan classic." See where I'm coming from?
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« Reply #29: April 16, 2008, 06:09:00 pm »

It might well be an Asatru classic too (or, considered a "classic" by Asatru, if you will), for all I know.

FYI - No most Asatruar would only read it for research needs and most likely not buy it.  I only have it becFYIause my wife is Wiccan.  The only Heathens that would buy it for magic purposes are the Seidr, but they are an ODD bunch to begin with. 
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