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Author Topic: Irish Pantheon  (Read 28166 times)
Juni
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« Topic Start: March 28, 2007, 03:54:43 pm »

Which deities of the Irish pantheon do we want to include? The ones I can think of off the top of my head...

Brighid
Lugh
Danu
Donn
Morrigan
Manannan
Aengus
Caer
Aine
Graine
Luchtaine
Goibniu
Credne
Macha
Fea
Nemain
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Flidais
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Miach
Fand
Niamh
Badb
Medb
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Garnet
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« Reply #1: March 28, 2007, 04:25:56 pm »

Are They all considered part of the Tuatha de Danann?  *is kinda clueless but really curious*
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« Reply #2: March 28, 2007, 04:46:02 pm »


Bóann
Eithniu
Oghma
Nuada
The Cailleach
The Dagda
Ériu
Tailtiu
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Celtee
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« Reply #3: March 28, 2007, 08:53:55 pm »

Which deities of the Irish pantheon do we want to include? The ones I can think of off the top of my head...


What about Bran and Cernunnos(sp)?
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« Reply #4: March 28, 2007, 08:57:16 pm »

Scathach.  (Maybe?  I know there's some debate on her goddess-ness.)
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« Reply #5: March 28, 2007, 11:11:23 pm »

What about Bran and Cernunnos(sp)?

I don't think either of them are Irish, but I'd have to double check.
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« Reply #6: March 28, 2007, 11:56:19 pm »

Are They all considered part of the Tuatha de Danann?  *is kinda clueless but really curious*

No, but I can't remember who is what.  Well, actually, Lugh is half Tuatha De Danann and half Fomorian, and I think that the Morrigan and Manannan are both considered outside of (and older than) the Tuatha De Danann.  Someone else will surely come along to clarify who is who and what, though.

Bran is a Welsh god, I think, but there is also a "human" Bran in Irish folkore, i.e., "The Voyage of Bran".  I don't know about Cernunnos... seems Gaulish to me.  He is said to be depicted on the Gundestrupe cauldron, which was continental Celtic, meaning it would be Gaulish, I think.

Man, is it even possible to get a full list of the Irish pantheon?  It seems to me that there were a lot of local gods and goddesses that barely show up in the folklore, besides the ones where were undoubtedly lost completely.  There's a pretty good list going so far, though.
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« Reply #7: March 29, 2007, 08:58:08 am »

What about Bran and Cernunnos(sp)?

Not entirely certain on Cerunnos but I know Bran was Welsh.

Problem defining gods here that I see, We need to figure out the role of the Tuatha De and the Fomorians and all the other invasions. Though if were looking at myths and the like and then forming a framework from there based on archeology then it could be doable. I think Celtic Heritage does a good job looking at some of this stuff.

ETS: Sara got to it before me, so its a little redundant saying Bran was Welsh.
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« Reply #8: March 29, 2007, 09:40:33 am »

Archeological sources seem to put Cernunnos in Gaul and Italy, I think it was.  Obviously, he was later taken into the pantheon of the Irish, Welsh and Bretons.  I think this is a good example of what I was saying elsewhere about elements of other cultures' practices and gods being pulled into Wicca, then spun out on the other side to where it's not always easy to distinguish the origin of that practice or god.

There's likely to be overlap in pantheons, really.  Brighid for example, is another goddess who is worshipped not just in Ireland, but has other names in other places on the Continent.
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« Reply #9: March 29, 2007, 10:03:06 am »

Archeological sources seem to put Cernunnos in Gaul and Italy, I think it was.  Obviously, he was later taken into the pantheon of the Irish, Welsh and Bretons.  I think this is a good example of what I was saying elsewhere about elements of other cultures' practices and gods being pulled into Wicca, then spun out on the other side to where it's not always easy to distinguish the origin of that practice or god.

There's likely to be overlap in pantheons, really.  Brighid for example, is another goddess who is worshipped not just in Ireland, but has other names in other places on the Continent.

Cernunnos was Gaulish, and the only inscriptions that exist dedicated to him are found in what were Gaulish regions. While the iconography associated with him can be found in Britain, I'm not aware of any in Ireland.
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« Reply #10: March 29, 2007, 10:07:35 am »

Are They all considered part of the Tuatha de Danann?  *is kinda clueless but really curious*

In addition to the others that people have already stated, Tailtiu wasn't (Fomorian foster-mother of Lugh IIRC) and the Cailleach isn't. Macha and Medb aren't generally considered Tuatha Dé Danann either, but then again the TDD were said to have consisted of "gods and ungods", so just being a member doesn't necessarily imply divine status...
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« Reply #11: March 29, 2007, 11:39:49 am »

Cernunnos was Gaulish, and the only inscriptions that exist dedicated to him are found in what were Gaulish regions. While the iconography associated with him can be found in Britain, I'm not aware of any in Ireland.

See?  There ya go.  I had a conflation of the facts due to so much "bad" info. :\
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« Reply #12: March 29, 2007, 01:04:36 pm »

In addition to the others that people have already stated, Tailtiu wasn't (Fomorian foster-mother of Lugh IIRC) and the Cailleach isn't. Macha and Medb aren't generally considered Tuatha Dé Danann either, but then again the TDD were said to have consisted of "gods and ungods", so just being a member doesn't necessarily imply divine status...

The Cailleach is Scottish, IIRC. My problem with the TDD is it's difficult to tell who precisely is and isn't, and because there's debate over whether TDD was even their original name, I always hesitate to use it.
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« Reply #13: March 29, 2007, 03:38:37 pm »

The Cailleach is Scottish, IIRC.

Yes, but Irish, too. The Cailleach Bheirre is a major Irish sovereignty figure, especially associated with Munster and the Beare peninsula. There are many stories of the ugly old hag who bargains with the young knight or hero; she becomes a beautiful young woman when he sleeps with her. The Lament of the Old Woman of Beare is one of the oldest Irish lyrics. (There's a version here http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/beare.html)

(The Scottish counterparts are the Cailleach Beinne Bric, and likely the best known Scottish, the wintery Cailleach Bheur.)

edited to add:

I agree with you; the  TTD is a difficult term; its use in the literature varies greatly over time. I tend to use it only in the most generalized way.
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« Reply #14: March 29, 2007, 03:46:44 pm »

I don't think either of them are Irish, but I'd have to double check.

There's lots of Brans -- I think Bran mac Fegal is the most notable Irish one. I'd say generally more hero than deity, but that line can be blurry.
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