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Author Topic: Welsh Gods and Goddesses  (Read 17473 times)
Sparrow
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« Topic Start: March 28, 2007, 08:40:35 pm »

Juni started off the Irish Pantheon list so I thought I would contribute some names for the Welsh list.

Goddesses:

Modron
Donn
Arianrhod
Rhiannon
Branwen
Cerridwen
Blodeuwedd
Aeron
Nimue

Gods:

Llew
Bran
Beli
Gwydion
Lludd
Llyr
Dylan
Govannon
Manawydan
Mabon
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 08:44:40 pm by Sparrow, Reason: I can\'t believe I almost forgot Rhiannon! » Logged

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« Reply #1: March 29, 2007, 07:32:36 pm »

Hmmm... what role will the Arthurian stories have in this?  If any?  I think it's safe to say that many gods and goddesses are hidden in those stories (like Nimue), but I know that some people actually name Taliesin and Merlin as gods.  I'm just not so sure about that myself, but I'd like to hear others thoughts.
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« Reply #2: March 29, 2007, 08:00:09 pm »

Hmmm... what role will the Arthurian stories have in this?  If any?  I think it's safe to say that many gods and goddesses are hidden in those stories (like Nimue), but I know that some people actually name Taliesin and Merlin as gods.  I'm just not so sure about that myself, but I'd like to hear others thoughts.

I kinda think, (This is strictly UPG based on my interpretation of the myths) that whilst they're all gods its a hierarchal thing. Think of almost Greek Mythology, tons of spirits that have quite a bit of power but for some reason not considered gods that goes to the 12 on Mt. Olympus. So whilst Merlin is probably a god, he might not be as high on the hierarchy.
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« Reply #3: March 29, 2007, 08:24:10 pm »

Hmmm... what role will the Arthurian stories have in this?  If any?  I think it's safe to say that many gods and goddesses are hidden in those stories (like Nimue), but I know that some people actually name Taliesin and Merlin as gods.  I'm just not so sure about that myself, but I'd like to hear others thoughts.

Yeah, I'm not sure either. These are some names I put up without trying to judge how they might be considered useful to this path. Maybe not at all.  I thought I would leave that open for discussion. I am certainly a beginner here  Smiley
I don't remember reading anything about Merlin being a god. I think Taliesen is, or I guess he became a god after being reborn didn't he after Cerridwen swallowed him up? I see that I didn't put him on the list. I'm unsure of how important he is in the scheme of things. I hold value in his tales though. I'll see if I can find some more specific info on them both.

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« Reply #4: March 29, 2007, 09:06:00 pm »

Hmmm... what role will the Arthurian stories have in this?  If any?  I think it's safe to say that many gods and goddesses are hidden in those stories (like Nimue), but I know that some people actually name Taliesin and Merlin as gods.  I'm just not so sure about that myself, but I'd like to hear others thoughts.

Within the Arthurian cycle Merlin is not considered a god, but a most powerful magian and prophet.   Taliesin is a poet, not a god although he certainly interacted with a goddess.
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« Reply #5: March 30, 2007, 08:55:54 am »

Within the Arthurian cycle Merlin is not considered a god, but a most powerful magian and prophet.   Taliesin is a poet, not a god although he certainly interacted with a goddess.

That is how I personally see both Merlin and Taliesin, and that is how they are portrayed in the stories.  But what I was thinking about was the fact that the stories are very, very filtered and muddle-up versions of mythology, and the characters have transformed from gods to humans, thanks to time, transcription and confusion.  What I was bringing up was the possibility that some folks like to honor the "original" status of the heroes as gods, even though the stories themselves are not necessarily the most clearly understood.

Do you see what I mean?
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« Reply #6: March 30, 2007, 02:45:15 pm »

Within the Arthurian cycle Merlin is not considered a god, but a most powerful magian and prophet.   Taliesin is a poet, not a god although he certainly interacted with a goddess.

That's interesting - I wasn't entirely clear on that.

They invoked Cerridwen and Taliesin at the first public ritual I went to.  A few days after that, I could still feel him looking at me sometimes.  Smiley
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« Reply #7: March 30, 2007, 03:31:04 pm »

They invoked Cerridwen and Taliesin at the first public ritual I went to.  A few days after that, I could still feel him looking at me sometimes.  Smiley

Taliesin is important to me too, but he doesn't proclaim himself to be a god (to me, anyway).  He's my guide, but he's not a diety, in the strictest sense of the word.
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« Reply #8: March 30, 2007, 03:56:40 pm »

Taliesin is important to me too, but he doesn't proclaim himself to be a god (to me, anyway).  He's my guide, but he's not a diety, in the strictest sense of the word.

That's much the way I view the heroes, too (CuChulainn, Finn, etc).
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« Reply #9: March 30, 2007, 09:35:37 pm »



Do you see what I mean?

I understand what you are saying, but because all (or almost all) old story get muddled up and for to long a time Welch tails were translated and transposed to other languages it is all but imposible to know the original or even very close to the original story and how it was interpreted at the time.

Of all the Arthurian cycle, Merlin and his role has ment more to me than the others, even if my Welch Grandfather's middle name was Arthur. Grin
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« Reply #10: April 02, 2007, 01:08:26 am »

It's such a strange beast, though. If you're going to include someone like Mabon in the "divine" category - a figure who was never referred to as anything other than human in the Mabinogion itself (nor is his mother, Modron), but has archetypal significance - then why not include Merlin or Taliesin, or Arthur himself? That's never made sense to me. Because <i>they</i> certainly have archetypal significance, don't they?
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« Reply #11: April 02, 2007, 11:23:24 am »

It's such a strange beast, though. If you're going to include someone like Mabon in the "divine" category - a figure who was never referred to as anything other than human in the Mabinogion itself (nor is his mother, Modron), but has archetypal significance - then why not include Merlin or Taliesin, or Arthur himself? That's never made sense to me. Because <i>they</i> certainly have archetypal significance, don't they?

I think they do have significance.  I didn't put them on the list because I personally have never seen them listed as gods. Maybe some do consider them gods and they should be added if people want them added.  It seems to me that based on the few responses that have been made here, people do honor/worship Merlin and/or Taleisin on some level.

I have on the other hand read in a few places that Modron and Mabon were considered Gods.

the Welsh Community Encyclopedia says Modron is a "Goddess who's name means Devine Mother. She is one of the most potent Celtic archetypal mother goddess"
Jones Celtic Encyclopedia says Mabon ap Modron is the welsh god of youth and equated him with the Irish Oengis mac ind Og as the ruler of the land of youth.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 11:25:36 am by Sparrow, Reason: truly horrible spelling mistakes » Logged
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« Reply #12: April 02, 2007, 12:13:07 pm »

I have on the other hand read in a few places that Modron and Mabon were considered Gods.

the Welsh Community Encyclopedia says Modron is a "Goddess who's name means Devine Mother. She is one of the most potent Celtic archetypal mother goddess"
Jones Celtic Encyclopedia says Mabon ap Modron is the welsh god of youth and equated him with the Irish Oengis mac ind Og as the ruler of the land of youth.

I can't recall Mabon or Modron ever being named explicitly as gods in the Mabinogion.  I can recall scholars interpreting them as gods, as archetypal figures, and that's where all of my understanding of them (as well as Taliesin and Merlin) as gods.


I'm sorry if I am coming across a little terse--in all honesty, I was just curious to see if others honored Arthurian figures as gods, because I know some people who do.
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« Reply #13: April 02, 2007, 01:48:01 pm »

I can't recall Mabon or Modron ever being named explicitly as gods in the Mabinogion.  I can recall scholars interpreting them as gods, as archetypal figures, and that's where all of my understanding of them (as well as Taliesin and Merlin) as gods.


I'm sorry if I am coming across a little terse--in all honesty, I was just curious to see if others honored Arthurian figures as gods, because I know some people who do.

I didn't read that as terse. I want to state again that I am no scholar and am here to learn.  I was just explaining why I put some names on the list and not others- personal experience. It was not meant to be the be all end all of deity lists, just a starting point  Smiley No body had contributed any names other than Irish at that point so I thought I would get the ball rolling.

Do you think Modron and Mabon should be taken off the list? Merlin and Taleisin added?
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« Reply #14: April 02, 2007, 07:26:54 pm »

I didn't read that as terse.

Okay, good.  Smiley

Do you think Modron and Mabon should be taken off the list? Merlin and Taleisin added?

Man... I just don't know.  I've always thought Welsh reconstructionism was a lot harder than Irish.  Undecided  What do you think we should do?
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