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Author Topic: Do pagans really believe in greek gods?  (Read 32804 times)
tjarna-ki
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« Reply #45: April 13, 2008, 06:19:12 pm »

It's a totally different page address from the original: I agree with Star, maybe it's some weird quirk of your browser.

Go to http://gleewood.org/threshold

Browser is firefox with all the latest updates... I don't have IE or anything else on this computer, so I'll try another computer of ours later.  As for right now, I've refreshed and turned the whole computer off (every comp sci student's fail safe) and I still can't get into either the original link, the reposted link, or even the main blog page above... all are giving me 403 forbidden errors with additional 404 page not found errors.  I'll try IE in a bit and see if I can get to it.  Not a big deal, but thanks for the options!

tj
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RandallS
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« Reply #46: April 13, 2008, 06:28:54 pm »

Side note: I'm a dink and it's 403 forbidden pages- clearly late night posting and I don't mix.  But I'm still getting the forbidden pages error messages... my issue, or is anyone else unable to get to the page as well?

I just checked the link on the Pagan Primer page and it's working.  There might be a link to it on other pages that I've forgotten about and they will not be changed until someone points me to them. There are over 1000 pages and I'm not checking them all. LOL.
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« Reply #47: April 15, 2008, 11:54:53 pm »

Do all pagans believe in the greek gods.
All? No.
Several do, though. Some, like Hellenic Recons and Hellenic-Reform pagans not only believe they are real, but worship them as the only pantheon in their religion, as their religion is centred around Hellenic and Hellenistic practices.
Others, such as eclectic paganism, some forms of Wicca, and some kinds of Neodruidry, integrate Greek and Roman gods into the gods they work with, though they are not necessarily worshipped. This makes sense, as the ancient Hellenic religion and myths are something many Americans grow up learning about in school as part of History and cultural discussions, and is thus something we can identify with and understand, and associate with the God and Goddess. Additionally, Wicca particularly is based on British folklore and Hermeticism, which itself takes much from Classical Hellenistic philosophy and theology; so, Wicca naturally heads for Hellenic (and Celtic) deities to venerate and work with.

But, there are many pagan and neopagan faiths that do not worship or even believe in the Hellenic pantheon. Asatru, Celtic Recons, some kinds of Neodruidry, and some of the more orthodox and traditionalist Wiccan branches are just a few who work with and worship entirely different pantheons from the Greek gods.
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« Reply #48: April 16, 2008, 08:09:55 am »

But, there are many pagan and neopagan faiths that do not worship or even believe in the Hellenic pantheon. Asatru, Celtic Recons, some kinds of Neodruidry, and some of the more orthodox and traditionalist Wiccan branches are just a few who work with and worship entirely different pantheons from the Greek gods.

Many of these Pagans do not disbelieve in the Greek Gods so much as they just aren't their Gods. I'm a Hellenic Pagan, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the Celtic Gods exist or the Northern European Gods exist, etc. It just means that I worship the Greek Gods, not other Gods.
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« Reply #49: April 16, 2008, 04:52:10 pm »

Many of these Pagans do not disbelieve in the Greek Gods so much as they just aren't their Gods. I'm a Hellenic Pagan, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the Celtic Gods exist or the Northern European Gods exist, etc. It just means that I worship the Greek Gods, not other Gods.

Being a hard polytheist, I'm with you. I'm not bespoke to another pantheon, but that doesn't mean I deny the existence of them. The ancient Greeks were always really good about acknowledging the possibility of other gods...I don't see why I should be any different.
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« Reply #50: April 16, 2008, 05:17:03 pm »

Many of these Pagans do not disbelieve in the Greek Gods so much as they just aren't their Gods. I'm a Hellenic Pagan, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the Celtic Gods exist or the Northern European Gods exist, etc. It just means that I worship the Greek Gods, not other Gods.
Okay. Yeah, that is a much better way to phrase it. That's sort of what I meant, it just came out wrong.
But, unfortunately, and apparently, you gov't folks will get in a cranky mood if I so much as think about editing my (emphasis on "my") post to revise my discussion point so as to avoid confusion. Tongue
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« Reply #51: April 16, 2008, 06:56:48 pm »

But, unfortunately, and apparently, you gov't folks will get in a cranky mood if I so much as think about editing my (emphasis on "my") post to revise my discussion point so as to avoid confusion. Tongue

If you did, it would invalidate what Randall had said and make his post look out of place and foolish.  That's why you're not allowed to edit to significantly change content, especially after your post has been replied to.

We also get cranky when people snark about the rules, incidentally, especially in public.  If you would like to discuss them, a private conversation with a staff member is the appropriate place to do so.  I would caution you, though, that this rule is not likely to change.  We know it's different from other forums, but...  well, we're not other forums, and this is what we feel we need to effectively run our forum.

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« Reply #52: April 16, 2008, 07:02:19 pm »

Many of these Pagans do not disbelieve in the Greek Gods so much as they just aren't their Gods. I'm a Hellenic Pagan, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the Celtic Gods exist or the Northern European Gods exist, etc. It just means that I worship the Greek Gods, not other Gods.

That's such a refreshing viewpoint to hear when one is used to a group of people saying 'only my God exists' or 'if you don't worship my God, you must worship a false one'.
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« Reply #53: April 16, 2008, 08:24:45 pm »

That's such a refreshing viewpoint to hear when one is used to a group of people saying 'only my God exists' or 'if you don't worship my God, you must worship a false one'.

What's a really interesting twist is when you talk to some pagans who agree that "Yeah, all the gods exist, oh, but not the Christian one." We've had some really interesting threads on that over the years.
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Juniper
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« Reply #54: April 16, 2008, 10:51:43 pm »

What's a really interesting twist is when you talk to some pagans who agree that "Yeah, all the gods exist, oh, but not the Christian one." We've had some really interesting threads on that over the years.

Lol, how strange. Perhaps there is some bitterness there that makes them deny the Christian God exists, or else they feel so put out by the fact Christians deny their Gods that they feel the need to deny the Christian one. Whatever the reason, it's very contradictory.
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« Reply #55: April 17, 2008, 01:23:30 am »

What's a really interesting twist is when you talk to some pagans who agree that "Yeah, all the gods exist, oh, but not the Christian one." We've had some really interesting threads on that over the years.
I don't believe the Christian God exists as Jews and Christians interpret him.
I view Yahweh as a particular cultural variation, specifically a Hebrew variation, of the ancient Levantine sun-god El, who I view as a manifestation of The God in His aspect as a sky father/sun god. Both are archetypal figures present in many mythologies and theologies found throughout Indo-Europe and the Near-East.
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« Reply #56: April 17, 2008, 08:53:05 am »

I don't believe the Christian God exists as Jews and Christians interpret him.

That's like saying that Athena didn't exist as the Greeks interpreted her; it doesn't make sense.  You're essentially saying that we don't know who we are worshiping.  That's awfully close to the kind of stuff that fundies spout when they say that Pagans are all really worshiping the devil, they just don't know it.

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« Reply #57: April 17, 2008, 10:40:46 am »

I don't believe the Christian God exists as Jews and Christians interpret him.
I view Yahweh as a particular cultural variation, specifically a Hebrew variation, of the ancient Levantine sun-god El, who I view as a manifestation of The God in His aspect as a sky father/sun god. Both are archetypal figures present in many mythologies and theologies found throughout Indo-Europe and the Near-East.

Good for you. It sounds as if your interpretations of deity are about the same as some Christians who run around telling us that we worship demons or Satan. I give the Jews and Christians a bit more credit than you do, but then again, I don't view deity as some sort of archetype or manifestation.
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« Reply #58: April 17, 2008, 04:09:07 pm »

I don't believe the Christian God exists as Jews and Christians interpret him.

Hmm...I think I'm with Sperran and Lyric on this, as this does sound very much like those who say all Pagans are worshipping the devil in disguise.

Unless, of course, I am misinterpretating your meaning...? I know there are those (I am one of them) who believe the Christian God exists, but who don't believe in the Bible; as this was written by man. And the Bible to some extent does greatly influence how Christians view their God. Consequently, perhaps you are saying it is the validity of the Bible that troubles you?

I may be way off-base here..! But I'm just brain-storming.
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« Reply #59: April 17, 2008, 04:21:24 pm »

I don't believe the Christian God exists as Jews and Christians interpret him.

Christians and Jews are not two monolithic groups who all see their God the same way. Certain Christian visions of their God (mainly those of extreme Fundies) probably cannot exist as they are irreparably self-contradictory, but even that doesn't mean the deity cannot exist, just that some people's beliefs about said deity aren't rational. Most Christian, Jewish, and Muslim interpretations of their God lack those problems, however -- and therefore these is no reason why they could not exist.

As others have pointed out, your statement seems very similar to what the Fundies say about Pagan Gods -- that our interpretation of them is wrong as they are all really the Fundie version of Satan.
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