The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
October 30, 2020, 08:38:39 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 30, 2020, 08:38:39 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Daily Worship  (Read 12496 times)
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: March 30, 2007, 10:19:51 am »

Figured that starting a new thread to cover issues about daily worship might help with the festivals thread.

Here is the 1st step in a proposal.

Daily worship is designed to be done by individuals. When there is more than one person involved, it really comes down to a bunch of individuals doing their daily worship at the same time.

For ex:
Start with washing of hands.

candle or incense is lit by one person in the group. or wine or other offering is made at some point in the daily worship. either before, during or at the end of the ritual.

A fixed set of prayers are recited / sung by the individual or by the group. Same prayers wether individual or group practice.

That's the most bare bones outline.

What's not mentioned is:
which gods get mentioned each day.
are any special clothing worn just for prayers?
what prayers are said.
how much time should this take?
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #1: March 30, 2007, 10:46:42 am »

Figured that starting a new thread to cover issues about daily worship might help with the festivals thread.

Good idea, thanks for doing that.

Quote
That's the most bare bones outline.

(Insert all "I'm a newbie" disclaimers here.)

I actually thought it sounded more than bare-bones; bare bones to me would be more along the lines of just saying a prayer/singing a hymn/etc., without all the lighting of stuff and offering.  This may depend on exactly what is meant by "daily worship"; does it need to be a full-on ceremony, or is it just a daily recognition of deities?  In my mind, I was thinking of daily practice as the latter, with what you described being more along the lines of the minor weekly festivals Randall was talking about.

From the initial essay, here's what was suggested regarding daily practice:
Daily Practice:

1) Prayers
2) Some type of home fire to Hestia (perhaps real while someone is home and symbolic when no one is home?)
3) Libations to a different deity each day.
4) Divination when needed

I think that's a good start.  Divination's already got its own thread, so we could probably focus on #1-3 in this thread.  (Though #3 might be overlapping with the major festivals thread right now.)

I have some questions relating to #2 and thoughts relating to #1, but I want to see if anyone even thinks I'm on the right track here before I babble too much.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: March 30, 2007, 12:35:01 pm »

Good idea, thanks for doing that.

(Insert all "I'm a newbie" disclaimers here.)

I actually thought it sounded more than bare-bones; bare bones to me would be more along the lines of just saying a prayer/singing a hymn/etc., without all the lighting of stuff and offering.  This may depend on exactly what is meant by "daily worship"; does it need to be a full-on ceremony, or is it just a daily recognition of deities?  In my mind, I was thinking of daily practice as the latter, with what you described being more along the lines of the minor weekly festivals Randall was talking about.

From the initial essay, here's what was suggested regarding daily practice:
I think that's a good start.  Divination's already got its own thread, so we could probably focus on #1-3 in this thread.  (Though #3 might be overlapping with the major festivals thread right now.)

I have some questions relating to #2 and thoughts relating to #1, but I want to see if anyone even thinks I'm on the right track here before I babble too much.

I don't see the need for divination on a daily individual practice level. 

I'm not sure what you mean by a full on cerimony.  Maybe the better question is:

How much time do people think should be spent for daily worship? That will give us an idea of what actions are reasonable.

I was looking at Jewish and Muslim daily practices. Jews (well, Orthodox ones) do it 3 times a day, Muslims do it 5.  Time wise I'll have to ask tonight.  I think a Jewish friend of mine spent about 15 minutes in the morning doing morning prayers.

Compared to Randall's originial post that you quoted, I added washing hands, dropped divination and dropped the fire to Hestia. Instead of just a libation, I offered incense as an alternative, since it also could be said to involve Hestia.

Logged
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #3: March 30, 2007, 12:50:50 pm »

I'm not sure what you mean by a full on cerimony. 

Something semi-formalized like a service with candle lighting, more structure than just "say a prayer".  What you suggested strikes me as full on ceremony, not necessarily a big one but ceremony as opposed to simply taking a few minutes for recognition nonetheless.

Quote
How much time do people think should be spent for daily worship? That will give us an idea of what actions are reasonable.

I don't think daily practice, in terms of prayers and such, has to be a lot of time.  A few minutes.  *shrug*

I may be coming at this all from a different angle entirely, since my background is Christian, where daily prayers were a few sentences over each meal and a slightly longer one at bedtime, no special actions involved beyond folding one's hands and bowing one's head.  It's entirely possible that's part of why I'm thinking less formal and structured than you seem to be.  I don't know which way (or compromise between the two) might be best for Hellenic purposes.

Quote
Compared to Randall's originial post that you quoted, I added washing hands, dropped divination and dropped the fire to Hestia. Instead of just a libation, I offered incense as an alternative, since it also could be said to involve Hestia.

Washing hands was a good addition; I think that needs to be in there.  I don't think the Hestia fire can be dropped that easily, though.  It was my impression that it's pretty important, and since it's about the hearth fire rather than fire in general, I don't think incense necessarily substitutes for it easily.

Divination and substituting incense for libations I'll have to leave for other people who know more about what they're talking about than I do.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
Melamphoros
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:March 28, 2015, 11:01:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: Informed Eclectic with Hellenic Overtones
TCN ID: Melamphoros
Posts: 13621


Kiss My Scythe

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #4: April 03, 2007, 09:17:53 am »

My thoughts,

I was thinking a daily prayer would consist of washing hands, say a general hymn/prayer to all the Gods, make an offering of some kind (libation, incense).  It should take 5-10 minutes at the most.

I'm not sure about the Hestia lamp.  For obvious reasons we can't have an unattended flame.  Prehaps an electric light like those battery-powered candles one sees around Christmas time?
Logged



Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #5: April 03, 2007, 09:24:47 am »

I'm not sure about the Hestia lamp.  For obvious reasons we can't have an unattended flame.  Prehaps an electric light like those battery-powered candles one sees around Christmas time?

*nods*  This was part of what I wanted to discuss, too, how best to deal with the modern realities of fire safety needs and the house being unattended for large parts of the day for some people/families.  I was thinking along the lines of an LED candle (the pillar types seem to look most realistic), but it would probably be good to discuss other alternatives for those who don't have them (either don't have them yet, or have trouble finding them, or find them a little expensive--household budgets also being a modern reality).  The plug-in candles seen around Christmas are a thought too, but I personally like them much better from a distance than close up.  Sad  I've just never liked the way they look; they don't look remotely real to me except from a distance, and it bugs me.  (Personal problem.  Doesn't mean it couldn't work for someone else, of course. Smiley )
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
aingealoreiad
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 30, 2010, 05:31:43 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Polytheist
Posts: 18


Not all who wander are lost.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6: April 03, 2007, 12:00:14 pm »

My thoughts,

I was thinking a daily prayer would consist of washing hands, say a general hymn/prayer to all the Gods, make an offering of some kind (libation, incense).  It should take 5-10 minutes at the most.

I'm not sure about the Hestia lamp.  For obvious reasons we can't have an unattended flame.  Prehaps an electric light like those battery-powered candles one sees around Christmas time?
This is what I picture when I think daily worship:  Wash hands, light my Hestia Candle (which I personally do every day anyway), light a stick of incense and recite a hymn.  Let the incense burn itself out and Do what you will with the candle (I'll personally be leaving it lit while I'm home and awake).
Logged

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.  ~Socrates

Walking the Path: Anamnesis
aingealoreiad
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 30, 2010, 05:31:43 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Polytheist
Posts: 18


Not all who wander are lost.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: April 03, 2007, 01:08:45 pm »

*nods*  This was part of what I wanted to discuss, too, how best to deal with the modern realities of fire safety needs and the house being unattended for large parts of the day for some people/families.  I was thinking along the lines of an LED candle (the pillar types seem to look most realistic), but it would probably be good to discuss other alternatives for those who don't have them (either don't have them yet, or have trouble finding them, or find them a little expensive--household budgets also being a modern reality).  The plug-in candles seen around Christmas are a thought too, but I personally like them much better from a distance than close up.  Sad  I've just never liked the way they look; they don't look remotely real to me except from a distance, and it bugs me.  (Personal problem.  Doesn't mean it couldn't work for someone else, of course. Smiley )

Honestly, I don't see the need to have an eternal light if it will be a problem.  It was done in ancient times because of the need to keep the hearth fire lit for food and heat.  We don't need that anymore.
Logged

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.  ~Socrates

Walking the Path: Anamnesis
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:Today at 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #8: April 03, 2007, 02:20:21 pm »

Honestly, I don't see the need to have an eternal light if it will be a problem.  It was done in ancient times because of the need to keep the hearth fire lit for food and heat.  We don't need that anymore.

Exactly. I've often wondered how much of this idea was because Hestia required it and how much was because we have to keep this fire going away we might as well dedicate it to Hestia.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
aingealoreiad
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 30, 2010, 05:31:43 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Polytheist
Posts: 18


Not all who wander are lost.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: April 03, 2007, 03:29:31 pm »

Exactly. I've often wondered how much of this idea was because Hestia required it and how much was because we have to keep this fire going away we might as well dedicate it to Hestia.

Right.  I thought it was you that had mentioned that before (although I know many have brought it up).  I lean towards being traditional when I can, so like the idea of having a candle burning when I'm home--it's a physical reminder everytime I see my altar that the Theoi are there, and to remember them, AND a means of tying into ancient practice with the polis and household Hestias that were used to light all other fires.
Logged

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.  ~Socrates

Walking the Path: Anamnesis
Darkhawk
Chief Mux Wizard
Staff
Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:January 20, 2020, 08:24:45 pm
United States United States

Religion: Kemetic Feri Discordian
Posts: 2485

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #10: April 04, 2007, 12:07:00 pm »

Exactly. I've often wondered how much of this idea was because Hestia required it and how much was because we have to keep this fire going away we might as well dedicate it to Hestia.

<half-whimsical>
So is the closest modern analogue the pilot light, you think?
</half-serious>
Logged

Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #11: April 04, 2007, 12:17:40 pm »

<half-whimsical>
So is the closest modern analogue the pilot light, you think?
</half-serious>

Pretty sure I've seen people talk about using that as their Hestia flame/dedicating the lighting of the pilot light to Hestia/etc., actually.  If we had gas as opposed to electric I know I'd be all about that.  Smiley
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #12: April 04, 2007, 12:22:37 pm »

Exactly. I've often wondered how much of this idea was because Hestia required it and how much was because we have to keep this fire going away we might as well dedicate it to Hestia.

I hadn't thought of it like that before, but it makes a great deal of sense.  Of course it also appeals to the part of me that's all "eeek, how do I do this under my particular circumstances".  Wink  But also it does make sense.

How else do we honor Hestia?  I seem to recall her getting the first and last offerings/libations at any sacrifice or ritual...  Somewhere I picked up offering her the first and last bite of each meal too?  Does that sound right, or am I off the wall here?  If the former, I propose that it still seems reasonable in a modern world (though, as evidenced by the above, I may always be overlooking something), but I think I might have some questions about specifics...
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:Today at 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #13: April 04, 2007, 09:42:52 pm »

<half-whimsical>
So is the closest modern analogue the pilot light, you think?
</half-serious>

Actually, if you still have one, I thuink that would be a great way to have a constant flame for Hestia. Unfortunately, I think everything in this house has an igniter instead of a pilot light.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #14: April 11, 2007, 11:21:41 am »

Stock paragraph:  Things have been a bit quiet, so I thought I'd see if I could summarize what's been said in some of these threads.  I feel like in some places we kind of just let things trail off mid-thought, so I'm hoping this might help pick back up and get going again.

For daily practice, what's been suggested seems to be: 

1.  Prayers, perhaps washing of hands followed by an offering/libation/incense burning and a hymn or prayer to all the Gods, taking 5-10 minutes at most. 

2.  Hestia flame should be present when people are home, and if the house contains a pilot light it would be good to dedicate that to Hestia, and battery-powered candles might be a 24/7 option for those without, but if keeping a flame lit at all times is not possible then the practitioner should not worry about it when there is no one around to attend the flame.

Reasonable so far?

Questions:

1.  The above outlines ways to honor Hestia individually and all the Gods as a group.  Do we need to be recognizing Anyone else individually on a daily basis (or a daily rotation, or every few days, or etc.)?  (Or is this something best left to the individual practitioner to decide?)

2.  Are prayers necessary multiple times per day, or is once daily enough?  If multiple times, are they the same each time or are there differences?

3.  Either way, does it matter when within the course of the day prayers are said?

4.  Any particular prayers/hymns to be used?  If not, any suggestions about resources people could find such things in?  (I mean, I'm kind of assuming we all know that the Homeric and Orphic Hymns exist, but I don't think they have things for "all the Gods", just for specific entities, unless I missed something, which is possible.  And there may be good sources outside of those too, I'm thinking?)

5.  Is anything done at mealtimes?
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Daily Practices « 1 2 »
Worship and Ritual
Juni 25 11462 Last post March 19, 2007, 08:30:14 pm
by loneash
Festival calendar & daily practices « 1 2 3 »
Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG
disillusioned 30 13402 Last post April 03, 2007, 04:20:04 pm
by Drunementon
Daily Devotions
Worship and Ritual
Thorn 7 4322 Last post September 11, 2009, 04:18:12 pm
by Waldfrau
Daily Motivation « 1 2 3 »
Faith in Everyday Life
Aster Breo 34 9752 Last post December 25, 2009, 07:28:06 am
by darkwhispersdale
Writing a Daily Ritual
Reformed Kemeticism SIG
Setnusutekh 7 2877 Last post July 29, 2010, 08:08:32 pm
by Nehet
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 50 queries.