The importance of location

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

Or donate directly via Paypal

This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.

[Ethel]

G'day all,

I've been making a start with Celtic paganism for quite a while, but I've hit a wall and I'm hoping someone might be able to advise a way around/through/over it.

I'm based in Australia, and I've a twofold dilemma to do with practising something like this so far removed from the original sites.  The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

(This isn't actually my first post, by the way - I registered and posted an introduction, then had a big break from the internet during which time I forgot my username, password AND the  email I had registered with.  So, I'm starting again!)

Many thanks,

Ethel.

[Finn]

G'day all,

I've been making a start with Celtic paganism for quite a while, but I've hit a wall and I'm hoping someone might be able to advise a way around/through/over it.

I'm based in Australia, and I've a twofold dilemma to do with practising something like this so far removed from the original sites.  The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

(This isn't actually my first post, by the way - I registered and posted an introduction, then had a big break from the internet during which time I forgot my username, password AND the  email I had registered with.  So, I'm starting again!)

Many thanks,

Ethel.

Hi, Ethel. 

First question: I'm afraid that "what feels right" is about all I can give you. Research deities that interest you, or start out with a culture that interests you and see what happens. Just do a little digging (there are plenty of resources here and elsewhere if you need some links), and I'm sure that you'll find what you're looking for.

Second: Many of us here in the Celtic diaspora are of the opinion that the gods will want whomever they want, wherever they happen to be. They know there are people all over the world now; gods are no longer necessarily local or even tribal. They're global, because we are global. They'll appreciate the attention wherever it comes from, I think.

[Coll9]

G'day all,

I've been making a start with Celtic paganism for quite a while, but I've hit a wall and I'm hoping someone might be able to advise a way around/through/over it.

I'm based in Australia, and I've a twofold dilemma to do with practising something like this so far removed from the original sites.  The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

Which gods do you have an affinity for? Which culture might have you a connection to? If you have a strong affinity for, let's say Lugh, approach him! Don't wait for the gods to come to you, meet them halfway or go the whole way yourself. Offer him a libation, give a prayer, and analyze the response, if any.  If positive in response, continue your devotions to build a stronger and growing relationship with him. Get out there and start interacting with the divine! If you have Welsh or maybe Irish ancestry, perhaps you'd like to start with the Welsh or Irish tribe of gods.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

That depends on the deity or spirit, really. Some divinities maybe closely tied to a physical location such as Aed of Ess Ruaid (Falls of Assaroe) along the river Erne. He is less likely to 'transcend' his locale, while deities such as Brighid or Lugh are very much capable of doing such, evident by the numerous religious experiences featuring them from people worldwide and their widespread worship across Gaelic lands.

(This isn't actually my first post, by the way - I registered and posted an introduction, then had a big break from the internet during which time I forgot my username, password AND the  email I had registered with.  So, I'm starting again!)

Many thanks,

Ethel.

I hope this helps somewhat. If you have any further questions, do ask!

[SunflowerP]

The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

Unless for some reason there's no way at all to carry the reasoning over, I'd say, in the same way that you determined that Celtic Paganism was the path you wanted to follow in the first place.

There's no hard and fast requirement to restrict yourself to a particular Celtic culture, either - lots of folks do, but many follow a pan-Celtic path.

Sunflower

[Ethel]

Thank you all very much! 

I think I've managed to over-research and over-analyse myself into a corner.  I tend to do that - take in a vast amount of information very quickly, then freeze when I try to implement it.  Might need to do a bit less reading, bit more doing for a little while - and as Tomas suggested, start with a deity who's not so site-specific until I get a bit more confident.

[Oaksworn]

The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

Well, were I to focus on what feels right I'd be looking in the direction of the Scots and the Irish to find what resonates most with who I believe I am.  The Lady who tapped me on the shoulder is from Gaul.  I'm not familiar with any genetic background coming from that direction nor has it been much of an interest to me in either a historic or current events manner.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

I'll second the notion that others here have mentioned: As the various Celtic cultures spread across the world they took their gods with them.  The gods became global with the exception of those that, for whatever reason, were more tied to a particular place.  I'll even go a step further and suggest that just because a deity is significantly identified with a particular location it does not necessarily follow that one cannot be in communiction with said deity from another part of the world.  I have no idea what kind of impact They would have or how strong that impact would be but I certainly wouldn't limit the possibility of communication with them.

I'd suggest taking a look at some of the mythologies and stories and see which ones resonate most for you.  From there you can narrow your focus and do a bit more indepth exploration.  Who knows?  What you may find could surprise even you.

[QuercusRobur]

Second: Many of us here in the Celtic diaspora are of the opinion that the gods will want whomever they want, wherever they happen to be. They know there are people all over the world now; gods are no longer necessarily local or even tribal. They're global, because we are global. They'll appreciate the attention wherever it comes from, I think.

I agree with that.  I'm a Scot who lives in England and is following an Irish path.  I didn't realise why, until I went to the British Museum and found that the part of Scotland my ancestors lived in had been invaded and colonised by the Irish in the Dark Ages.

You could try reading The Mabinogion or Thomas Kinsella's translation of The Tain.  Both of them are good starting points.

[QuercusRobur]

I'll second the notion that others here have mentioned: As the various Celtic cultures spread across the world they took their gods with them.  The gods became global with the exception of those that, for whatever reason, were more tied to a particular place.  I'll even go a step further and suggest that just because a deity is significantly identified with a particular location it does not necessarily follow that one cannot be in communiction with said deity from another part of the world.  I have no idea what kind of impact They would have or how strong that impact would be but I certainly wouldn't limit the possibility of communication with them.

I totally agree with that.  You have to remember that Brigit and Lugh are popular deities, which is why they're followed all over the world.

[Aster Breo]

I'm based in Australia, and I've a twofold dilemma to do with practising something like this so far removed from the original sites.  The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

Others have already answered quite thoroughly, but I feel compelled to chime in here, even if all I'm doing is agreeing.   

Regarding choosing a deity who "feels right":  It may turn out to be more about which deity chooses *you*.  I've always been very interested in Celtic mythology, art, archeology, etc., and did tons of reading about those subjects.  Eventually I realized I was getting some kind of special feeling when I happened to read about Brighid.  So I started focusing my reading on Her.  The more I read, the more I felt something, until finally I started having a direct connection with Her.  Before all this happened, I had sort of tried to connect with Inanna, but nothing ever happened there.  In retrospect I think that was because I've been Brighid's all along;  I just hadn't figured it out yet.

Choosing which specific Celtic culture happened the same way.  I was broadly interested in all things Celtic, and as I focused on Brighid, I also focused on Ireland.

And would a Celtic god want attention from someone in another part of the world?  My experience with Brighid is a resounding YES.  Why?  I have no clue.  But it doesn't really surprise me.  After all, the Celts were widely traveled and migrated into what we now consider Celtic areas.  So why wouldn't their gods be as amenable to travel?   

[Oaksworn]

After all, the Celts were widely traveled and migrated into what we now consider Celtic areas.  So why wouldn't their gods be as amenable to travel?   

Y'know, reading that it makes me wonder about areas with strong Gaelic influences such as Boston (Hey, the Boston Celtics...?), Chicago, New York, Savannah, etc...  If these areas, even if they are only parts of the city, have such strong Gaelic roots why wouldn't the Celtic gods have followed?  In a way you could think of it as adding a room to your house - it's just another space for the gods to hang out in.

[Savage_Spirit]

Y'know, reading that it makes me wonder about areas with strong Gaelic influences such as Boston (Hey, the Boston Celtics...?), Chicago, New York, Savannah, etc...  If these areas, even if they are only parts of the city, have such strong Gaelic roots why wouldn't the Celtic gods have followed?  In a way you could think of it as adding a room to your house - it's just another space for the gods to hang out in.

This may be straying off topic somewhat, but so be it.

The way I see it, nearly all of the people who emmigrated from the "Celtic lands" to settle the New World and other places like Australia in the last 500 years or so were Christian.  They didn't bring Celtic gods with them because centuries before, their ancestors largely rejected those gods.

The Celtic gods are "diminished" and it is our obligation as their followers to "build them back up".  The gods gain energy through our reverence and worship and as they gain energy, they gain followers who in turn give them more energy.  The gods will take notice of any person who is giving them energy in a sincere and respectful way, regardless of where that person lives or who their ancestors were.

It was mentioned above that Bridgit and Lugh are among the better known and more popular of the Celtic deities.  It may be so because they have been "built up" or "energised" more than most of the others.  Both were pan-celtic deities.  Both had cults that lasted well into the Christian era.  Bridgit was actually made a saint and her "worship" continued in a new form by Christians through to present day.  When the Celtic revival began, these two deities had maintained enough energy that they were quickly recognised and "picked up" by new followers associated with the revival movement.  Now, thanks to that head start, they hold the status of most popular, best known, most widely worhiped of the Celtic deities and their energy grows with each passing day.

Take a look at Cernunnos.  If not for the Wiccans, he would most likely be in the same category as many other obscure Celtic deities, but becuase they adopted him, he is now one of the most "energetic" with followers all over the world.  It may also be a testament to his adaptability (one of his key traits) that he was able to flourish in such a different structure of worship compared to what he'd experienced in the past.

The Morrigan is another whose energy is rising rapidly.  However, her means of gaining energy seems partly to be going the route of tapping into popular culture.  People now discover, honour, and "worship" The Morrigan in completely non-religious ways in her new guises as dark or gothic Morrigan characters in comic books, video games, TV shows and movies.  Want proof?  Google image search "Morrigan" and see how many pictures come up that have no relevence to Celtic spirituality.  Some will be porn (somewhat appropriate to her I guess), some will be black dogs (also appropriate), and many will be images of these Morrigan characters.   Leave it to the dark, shape-shifting goddess to find such a loop-hole for gaining new energy.

Hopefully, this sparks some discussion.  I appologise for leading this thread away from the original topic, but it seems that it was talked out anyway.

[Finn]

The Celtic gods are "diminished" and it is our obligation as their followers to "build them back up".  The gods gain energy through our reverence and worship and as they gain energy, they gain followers who in turn give them more energy.  The gods will take notice of any person who is giving them energy in a sincere and respectful way, regardless of where that person lives or who their ancestors were.

I'm don't think I agree with this here. Though I agree with and appreciate the idea that we work together with the gods, that the gods are not these all-powerful creatures completely beyond us and in no need of us, and that the gods will respect anyone regardless of their ancestry... I don't think the gods are "diminished", nor it is our duty as such to "build the gods back up." This places a hierarchy upon us which I just don't think exists.

Perhaps I'm missing your point or misunderstanding you, though?

[samham73]

G'day all,

I've been making a start with Celtic paganism for quite a while, but I've hit a wall and I'm hoping someone might be able to advise a way around/through/over it.

I'm based in Australia, and I've a twofold dilemma to do with practising something like this so far removed from the original sites.  The first - and there's no way to say this without sounding like a complete twit, please forgive me - is how do I know which stream of Celtic culture to focus, on, which deities to associate with?  Following one that 'feels right' seems just a step up from picking one out of a hat.

The second: is a Celtic deity who's associated with a particular location - be it Wales in general or a particular spring - going to want attention from some random person on the other side of the world?

(This isn't actually my first post, by the way - I registered and posted an introduction, then had a big break from the internet during which time I forgot my username, password AND the  email I had registered with.  So, I'm starting again!)

Many thanks,

Ethel.

A good idea to find a deity that might feel right is to trace back your ancestors and where they lived. Im sure it could be a good start. And then you could look up descriptions on those deitys and there powers you would like them to share with you in the times of need. for example Lugh with his great skillness would be a good deity for an athlete.

[Tags:]

Jump to: Please select a destination: ----------------------------- About The Cauldron ----------------------------- => Rules and Regulations => Cauldron Announcements ===> Volunteers Needed: Site Assistants and Projects => Introductions => Board Questions, Suggestions, and Feedback => Chat and CauldronMUX Support => Test Board ----------------------------- Religion and Philosophy ----------------------------- => Paganism For Beginners => Books and Other Resources => Pagan Religions => Pagan Spirituality => Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology => Worship and Ritual => Holidays and Festivals => History and Religion => Faith in Everyday Life => Philosophy and Metaphysics => Non-Pagan Religions and Interfaith Discussions => Miscellaneous Religious Discussions ----------------------------- Magic and the Occult ----------------------------- => Magic and the Occult for Beginners => Witchcraft, Hoodoo, and Folk Magic => The Western Magical Tradition => Chaos Magic => Lodges and Other Magic Organizations => Miscellaneous Magical Discussions ----------------------------- Special Interest Groups & Special Discussions ----------------------------- => Special Topic Discussions => Chavi Memorial Chronic Illness SIG => General SIGS ===> College Pagans SIG ===> Cooking SIG ===> Divination SIG ===> Home and Garden SIG ===> Pagan Parents SIG ===> Teen Pagans SIG => Religious SIGS ===> Asatru and Heathenry SIG ===> Cauldron Cill ===> FlameKeeping SIG ===> Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG ===> Neo-Druidry SIG ===> Reformed Kemeticism SIG ===> Ta Hiera Hellenic Polytheism SIG => Book/Media Discussion Boards ===> Academic Book Discussions ===> Pagan Religion Book Discussions ===> Magick Book Discussions ===> Fiction Book Discussions ===> DVD/Video Discussions ----------------------------- Life, the Universe, and Everything Else ----------------------------- => Pagan Announcements => Prayer and Energy Requests => News and Politics ===> Religious News ===> Non-Religious News ===> Political Discussions => Social Discussion Boards ===> Art, Poetry and Writing ===> Books ===> Computers and the Internet ===> Crafts and Hobbies ===> Family Life ===> Gaming ===> Health and Medicine ===> Humor and Quizzes ===> Music, Television, and Film ===> Pets ===> Science and Technology ===> Sports and Recreation