The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
November 28, 2020, 03:27:26 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2020, 03:27:26 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Struggling with a path and finding others who hold the same vvalues  (Read 4892 times)
happy
Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 19, 2010, 12:59:29 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: still searching
Posts: 17


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: April 22, 2008, 06:17:49 am »

Hi,i have been looking at different religions since 2005.I am 19 this June. At the end of 2005 i attended both a Catholic church and bought books on Wicca. I have also attended Mass a few times since then. I have looked at all the pagan religions too,as well as the other Abrahamic faiths.
I am a person of strongly-held values (however i must admit i am sometimes very confused because of public opinion on these matters)yet i  have read credible evidence from Catholics on their views and still hold to many of them most of the time. However,i do not like the focus on Jesus in Catholicism,although i turn to him privately,i feel there is not enough emphasis on Mary whom i was very close to as a child and feel Wicca's balance is more sensible,i also like the freedom of ritual and magic. I am also put off by the idea of Original Sin and the preoccupation with sin;the fear of eternal hell-which i don't believe God created or Jesus would let us fall in to,nor that one can lose one's salvation. I believe Jesus died to show God's love,not because we needed to be saved. I don't like the God of the Old Testament either. My concerns are my own values,namely that homosexuality is disordered-Gerald Gardner believed this too i think-however many modern covens accept homosexual and transgender sexual activity but i do not. I do not believe in pre-marital sex or contraception and usually only the sexual activity which one does to reproduce. I am unsure on self-pleasuring too. I am a believer in a man and woman and children-biologically produced-which makes up a family and do not support gay and lesbian adoption. I am very anti-abortion and also believe in modest dress. But i have no problem if others want to work Skyclad.


Perhaps i should seek out a traditional coven if i wish to join one,but with many not belonging to such covens and holding modern values i may not be welcome in open covens who meet at pagan gatherings. I am also interested in Hellenismos,yet i prefer the Sabbats and Esbats of Wicca and also the specific magical practices of Wicca;yet i would want to worship the Greek gods in a traditional,historical way and not shove them in to a Wiccan ritual.
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

happy
Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 19, 2010, 12:59:29 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: still searching
Posts: 17


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #1: April 22, 2008, 06:28:07 am »

I would like to add that i do not believe i am anywhere near the stage of joining a coven. I have looked at that many different religions that i have not seriously studied the many wiccan books that i have purchased;but i need to find the spiritual side to Wicca,which i know is there through the Rede etc,but i think more modern books place too much emphasis on spell work. I prefer books like The Witches Bible by the Farrars.
Logged
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #2: April 22, 2008, 07:34:08 am »


Welcome to the Cauldron!

I have to say - with your attitudes on sex, I think Wicca is REALLY not the place for you.  Their central rite is sex - usually as a symbol and not in reality, but that doesn't make it any less sacred sexuality.  And everything centers from that.  So if that doesn't match your worldview, the more traditional the coven the MORE you're going to be uncomfortable!

good luck finding your path.
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: April 22, 2008, 07:52:34 am »

My concerns are my own values,namely that homosexuality is disordered-Gerald Gardner believed this too i think-however many modern covens accept homosexual and transgender sexual activity but i do not. I do not believe in pre-marital sex or contraception and usually only the sexual activity which one does to reproduce. I am unsure on self-pleasuring too. I am a believer in a man and woman and children-biologically produced-which makes up a family and do not support gay and lesbian adoption. I am very anti-abortion and also believe in modest dress. But i have no problem if others want to work Skyclad.

Quite honestly, you will likely have problems within Wicca, these days, for several reasons.

It's important to remember that Gardner was a product of his times: his understanding of non-heterosexuality was very much shaped by having grown up in the tail end of the Victorian era, with all that impact. Most groups these days will happily (as you note) work with people who are non-heterosexual, and a number will work with those who are transgender. In large part, that's a reflection of our society: as people have learned more about these issues, practices and opinions shift.

(That said, in traditional Wiccan groups, you'll still see a lot of male-female polarity work - it's just that the group focuses on the roles you take in ritual, not what you might do outside of circle, as the primary determination.)

There's also obviously the other practices around sexuality. We are, after all, talking about a path where a primary document - the Charge of the Goddess - talks both about working skyclad, and about all acts of pleasure being acts of worship. Many Wiccans do also have concerns about population growth and the effect on our planet - even those who have or want children will generally use some form of contraception at most times. Likewise, pre-marital sex or sex outside of a desired procreative relationship is not generally seen as a problem, so long as the relationship in question is pleasureable and otherwise ethical.

Of course, issues around sexuality are a part of the historical witchcraft tradition - I'm sure you know that one of the traditions is that of a wise woman who knows what herbs can avoid pregnancy or cause an early stage abortion. There are reasons for that: it's extremely powerful knowledge.

There are also all sorts of implications from this: traditional Wicca is priestess-run: it is hard to run a group, to offer time and service, to plan those Sabbats and Esbats you want to attend, to be hearth to a community, if you are a woman with many young children, or whose body is focusing its energy on regular pregnancies. (And of course, there are possible medical risks in pregnancy, as well.)

For me, as a woman of child-rearing age, the option *not* to have children has to go along with the idea of that kind of structure: I'm very well aware that if I had kids (which would be medically a bad idea for me anyway), I would have at least 5-10 years in which what I could do for my religious community in terms of group leadership would have to be put aside to focus on the needs of smaller children. (Either that, or not work for a living and have substantial local support with things like babysitting, both of which can be challenging in this day and age). Running a group takes time and energy - and focused serious ritual work means that time is not spent with one's children, as a number of methods and the energy itself may not be suitable for small children.

That said, some groups do have some ritual limitations for specific roles - for example, some groups ask that the May Queen and Green Man at their Beltane ritual be open to procreation, and in a position to support it. But that's usually, as in that case, for specific reason.

In a case like yours, I think I'd start by looking very closely at what you want - a long list of things that you are interested in, and things that you are not interested in. Which ones matter the most to you? Why? You mention both interests in Wiccan-related magic: would non-religious witchcraft with a focus on seasonal changes meet most or all of your interests? (This is not something you need to answer to me, but just for yourself, to be clear.)
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #4: April 22, 2008, 08:05:27 am »

Hi,i have been looking at different religions since 2005.

Welcome to the Cauldron.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #5: April 22, 2008, 08:06:51 am »

My concerns are my own values,namely that homosexuality is disordered-Gerald Gardner believed this too i think-however many modern covens accept homosexual and transgender sexual activity but i do not. I do not believe in pre-marital sex or contraception and usually only the sexual activity which one does to reproduce. I am unsure on self-pleasuring too. I am a believer in a man and woman and children-biologically produced-which makes up a family and do not support gay and lesbian adoption. I am very anti-abortion and also believe in modest dress. But i have no problem if others want to work Skyclad.

I suggest you take a look at some non-Wiccan Pagan religions. While you will probably not find many that (as a religion) share your particular sexual values, many Pagan religions are far less "sexually centered" in their religious beliefs/rituals which means your values will be less likely to come into conflict with the religion practices. Note, however, that if active moral condemnation of (or active prejudice against) homosexuality, pre-marital sex, contraception, and sex for pleasure are something you really need in a religion, few -- if any -- Pagan religions are going to meet your needs.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Celtee
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:May 02, 2013, 06:50:08 pm
United States United States

Religion: Wandering Seeker with Celtic and Hedgewitch leanings
TCN ID: SilverWolf
Posts: 4773


The lone wolf waits...

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #6: April 22, 2008, 11:48:02 am »


Welcome to The Cauldron.
Logged

"It's only forever
Not long at all"
~~Jareth

"Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can't trace time"
Changes
~~ David Bowie

"Why do you have to be a nonconformist like everybody else?"
~~James Thurber
EverFool
Board Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 16, 2011, 12:40:01 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: atheist
Posts: 2960


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #7: April 22, 2008, 01:26:07 pm »

My concerns are my own values,namely that homosexuality is disordered-Gerald Gardner believed this too i think-

That said, I don't believe Gerald Gardner is held as a particular authority in the realm of clinical psychology. Wink
Logged

If anal prolapse teaches us anything, it's that it is what is inside that counts.
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #8: April 22, 2008, 05:11:24 pm »

That said, I don't believe Gerald Gardner is held as a particular authority in the realm of clinical psychology. Wink

I don't think he even had any training in the field. I'd hardly hold him up as an expert on the subject any more than I would Pat Robertson.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Juniper
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:January 06, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Hedgewitch with Neo-Wiccan leanings
TCN ID: Juniper
Posts: 1742


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: April 22, 2008, 09:01:59 pm »


Perhaps if you feel such a connection with the Catholic Virgin Mary, then you should base your belief system around her. Go with what you feel comfortable with.

Welcome to The Cauldron.
Logged

'How she longed for winter then!-
Scrupulously austere in its order
Of white and black
Ice and rock; each sentiment within border,
And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
~Sylvia Plath
Oaksworn
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:December 25, 2017, 06:17:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Energy worker with hedgewitch tendencies
Posts: 1116


Reality is but perception.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: April 22, 2008, 11:22:39 pm »

However,i do not like the focus on Jesus in Catholicism,although i turn to him privately,i feel there is not enough emphasis on Mary whom i was very close to as a child and feel Wicca's balance is more sensible,i also like the freedom of ritual and magic.

Perhaps looking into Gnostic Christianity would be of some interest?  I don't really know much about it but I've always thought that different schools of Gnosticism were more accepting of a wider philosophy than modern day Christianity espouses.
Logged

"Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station, and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff. We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective. " ~ Delenn, Babylon 5
happy
Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 19, 2010, 12:59:29 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: still searching
Posts: 17


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: April 23, 2008, 05:08:42 am »

Thank you for all your replies. My views on homosexuality changed since going back to Catholicism,maybe that's what changed it somewhat. I guess i should try to leave it alone,including transgendered people. I still frown upon abortion though and would prefer a man and woman to raise a family,but perhaps i should relax a bit. The thing is with looking at so many religions,i tend to get frustrated that i can't find a path and keep switching,trying to find a place to belong;something to be passionate about,relate to and defend,since i am a very emotional person and can sometimes get worked up about things. I am rethinking Hellenismos,celebrating the seasons/sabbats(samhain,litha)etc and practising magick as part of or seperate from that;though i believe in reincarnation,i don't know what the  Greeks believed . 
Logged
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #12: April 23, 2008, 08:10:54 am »

The thing is with looking at so many religions,i tend to get frustrated that i can't find a path and keep switching,trying to find a place to belong;something to be passionate about,relate to and defend,since i am a very emotional person and can sometimes get worked up about things.

Sometimes it can take years to find the religion that really calls to you.

Quote
I am rethinking Hellenismos,celebrating the seasons/sabbats(samhain,litha)etc and practising magick as part of or seperate from that;though i believe in reincarnation,i don't know what the  Greeks believed . 

Magic isn't part of the Hellenic religion and was often frowned upon by Hellenes, although they certainly used it a lot judging by curse tablets and the like that have been found. This, however, is fairly normal as most religions do not include magic any more than they include science or football.  The Wiccan Wheel of the Year/Sabbats are totally alien to Hellenic Religion. They are a modern combination of two festival cycles from Northern Europe. Hellenic virews of the afterlife varied, although most were a shadowy existence somewhat like mortal life.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Oaksworn
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:December 25, 2017, 06:17:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Energy worker with hedgewitch tendencies
Posts: 1116


Reality is but perception.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: April 23, 2008, 08:43:24 am »

The Wiccan Wheel of the Year/Sabbats are totally alien to Hellenic Religion. They are a modern combination of two festival cycles from Northern Europe.

Really?  Hmm.  I never really looked all that deep into it as Wicca, while on the surface appealed to me, didn't resonate with me or at least the material I was reading at the time didn't.  If you don't mind, which two cycles were merged?
Logged

"Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station, and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff. We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective. " ~ Delenn, Babylon 5
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: April 23, 2008, 10:16:14 am »

Really?  Hmm.  I never really looked all that deep into it as Wicca, while on the surface appealed to me, didn't resonate with me or at least the material I was reading at the time didn't.  If you don't mind, which two cycles were merged?

Basically, the solstice/equinox cycle is one set, and the 'fire festivals' (Imbolc, Beltane, Lammas, Samhain) are the other set. They got merged relatively early on by Gardner, but there's some documentation about it. (The basic theory, as I understand it:  More chances to get to together and celebrate? Yay!)

The latter cycle is more conventionally Celtic influenced (as you might guess by the names we use). The Solstice/Equinox set is more Northern-European/Germanic influence.

Personally, I think there's a lot of benefits (especially on a group dynamic aspect) and some cyclical ones, once you figure out how to give all of them sufficient focus and 'point' (reason they're there).
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Finding the right path and a God/Goddess « 1 2 3 4 »
Paganism For Beginners
nemesisfirestorm 48 12418 Last post August 24, 2007, 10:46:53 am
by southerngoddes
Finding your path.... Any path.... « 1 2 3 4 5 »
Social Discussion Boards
GoblynQueene 68 19679 Last post January 18, 2008, 08:18:00 am
by mandrina
Help Needed Finding My Path « 1 2 3 »
Paganism For Beginners
Symphon 40 9921 Last post August 03, 2010, 12:47:29 pm
by Kat38
Need help finding a path
Paganism For Beginners
Tais 7 3316 Last post January 12, 2009, 09:41:15 am
by Alastriona
Finding the Right Path
Paganism For Beginners
Scarlet 7 3550 Last post March 15, 2009, 01:37:35 pm
by EverFool
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 51 queries.