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Author Topic: Wicca 404: Advanced Goddess Thealogy  (Read 12874 times)
Tana
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« Reply #30: May 05, 2008, 03:26:59 pm »

According to many bad Pagan 101 books, the moon deity is ALWAYS female and the sun deity is ALWAYS male in ALL cultures throughout the world and in all eras of history. Reality is NOT allowed to intrude on this TRUTH. Roll Eyes

I thought a bit about this.

I think the real problem behind this is that people mistake male and female concepts as necessarily belonging to a man or a woman. In other words that 'man' or 'woman' is somekind of header under which - nicely separated - all male and female concepts are listed. Like that: yin-female-dark-water-woman and yang-male-light-fire-man. Sort of this.

Instead 'man' or 'woman' and all the possible variations of this are just concepts too.

So I don't see the problem calling the moon - der Mond - and still asking 'him' for intuition and help with 'female' matters. Until of course its some really feminist thing, I've met some who make each and every word female. It's annoying.

I hope I make sense, I feel a lack for the right words to express what I mean.
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Sperran
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« Reply #31: May 05, 2008, 04:56:11 pm »

So I don't see the problem calling the moon - der Mond - and still asking 'him' for intuition and help with 'female' matters. Until of course its some really feminist thing, I've met some who make each and every word female. It's annoying.

I'm so glad that English doesn't typically assign a gender to everything.  It makes my life much easier.  If we could just agree on a gender neutral pronoun besides "it", I would be doubly happy.

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« Reply #32: May 05, 2008, 05:03:24 pm »

I'm so glad that English doesn't typically assign a gender to everything.  It makes my life much easier.  If we could just agree on a gender neutral pronoun besides "it", I would be doubly happy.

Sperran

I nominate Sunflower's "hir" Wink

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« Reply #33: May 05, 2008, 05:07:11 pm »

I nominate Sunflower's "hir" Wink

Gina

That is a good one.  Now if we can just get one for the subjective case, we are all set.

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« Reply #34: May 05, 2008, 05:17:08 pm »

Actually, it's not sound linguistics, since the-, not theo- is the root of the word. The -o- infix is merely a transitional vowel meant to get you from the root to the suffix. It follows the same principles as using "an" instead of "a" in front of a word that begins with a vowel. The -o- is there merely for ease of pronunciation.

Sasha
Duh! I had Greek for two semesters and did it make me smarter? *headdesk*

Thanks for stopping us babbling complete tripe.
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« Reply #35: May 06, 2008, 08:07:59 pm »

Actually, it's not sound linguistics
Got that from your longer explanation already - I bow to your superior knowledge base, and appreciate the input.

Sunflower
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« Reply #36: May 06, 2008, 08:22:26 pm »

That is a good one.  Now if we can just get one for the subjective case, we are all set.
S/he (with the "s" and "h" sounded separately if you want a pronunciation; it's a bit awkward but not nearly as much as it seems before you try it), hir (pronounced as a long e), hirs, hirself.  I think that covers it.

Though a number of people over the years have suggested this system was devised before I did it (with no one being able to cite a source with certainty), as far as I can tell, while some of the elements are shared with other systems, this system as a whole really is mine (with the exception of the pronunciation of "hir", which was kindly provided to me by a fellow ConVersion member).

Sunflower
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« Reply #37: May 06, 2008, 09:16:16 pm »

According to many bad Pagan 101 books, the moon deity is ALWAYS female and the sun deity is ALWAYS male in ALL cultures throughout the world and in all eras of history. Reality is NOT allowed to intrude on this TRUTH. Roll Eyes

 Cheesy Haha!

So I guess such a book would completely ignore, say, the fact that in Japanese myth the moon is male?

I've been lucky enough not to have wasted my money on such a book. Although I have read some pretty iffy stuff online.
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Exact as a snowflake'
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« Reply #38: May 06, 2008, 09:18:08 pm »

The Japanese moon deity is male (Tsuki-yomi). He is the brother of the sun goddess.  And you are right, male moon deities are actually relatively common as even a little research will show. This proves yet again that many Pagan 101 book authors really don't do any fact checking on their claims.

I'm sorry, I see that you've already mentioned this now.

That teaches me to post before reading the entire thread! Naughty me.
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And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
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« Reply #39: May 07, 2008, 02:53:51 am »

S/he (with the "s" and "h" sounded separately if you want a pronunciation; it's a bit awkward but not nearly as much as it seems before you try it), hir (pronounced as a long e), hirs, hirself.  I think that covers it.

Though a number of people over the years have suggested this system was devised before I did it (with no one being able to cite a source with certainty), as far as I can tell, while some of the elements are shared with other systems, this system as a whole really is mine (with the exception of the pronunciation of "hir", which was kindly provided to me by a fellow ConVersion member).

Sunflower
Not sure if you'll like that source, but Peter David uses the same pronouns in his Star Trek - New Frontier novels. He has a hermaphrodite character in them. But I've no idea where he has the pronouns or the idea from.
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« Reply #40: May 07, 2008, 07:38:01 am »

S/he (with the "s" and "h" sounded separately if you want a pronunciation; it's a bit awkward but not nearly as much as it seems before you try it), hir (pronounced as a long e), hirs, hirself.  I think that covers it.

There's also the zie/zir variant, which I like quite a bit.

There's a bunch of other variants listed in the Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun - many of which I've never seen in action (and I spend time in areas where gender neutral pronouns are not uncommon.)
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sefiru
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« Reply #41: May 07, 2008, 06:36:38 pm »

Not sure if you'll like that source, but Peter David uses the same pronouns in his Star Trek - New Frontier novels. He has a hermaphrodite character in them. But I've no idea where he has the pronouns or the idea from.

It's common usage for hermaphrodite characters in certain circles *cough*furry*cough*. I've usually seen it formed shi (pronounced shay), hir, hirs etc.

Not to mention the race of gender-shapeshifters that get referred to as hy, hym, hys.
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« Reply #42: May 07, 2008, 07:11:43 pm »

Not to mention the race of gender-shapeshifters that get referred to as hy, hym, hys.
LOL! Haven't read that much ST-novels (should I say thanks heaven?)
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« Reply #43: May 07, 2008, 10:33:54 pm »

LOL! Haven't read that much ST-novels (should I say thanks heaven?)

It's internet fanfiction, actually, and fairly good quality by fanfic standards. Though it is pretty crazy when I think about it -- the gender-shifters are also genetically-engineered skunk centaurs with psychic powers. It makes sense in context. No, really.
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« Reply #44: May 08, 2008, 02:22:21 am »

It's internet fanfiction, actually, and fairly good quality by fanfic standards. Though it is pretty crazy when I think about it -- the gender-shifters are also genetically-engineered skunk centaurs with psychic powers. It makes sense in context. No, really.
I've read fanfic too in my trekkie-phase, to be honest, I've written some, heterosexual though *cough*.
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