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Author Topic: The Invasion Cycle as a creation myth?  (Read 8408 times)
Juni
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« Reply #15: May 25, 2008, 02:00:07 pm »

Yes, I've got it clearly in my notes that "The Dictionary of Irish Folklore" by Peter Beresford Ellis says Aibell is male and "The Oxford Dictionary of Celtic Mythology" by James Mackillop says Aibell's female.

If you find any more sources for Aibell can you please point me towards them?  I need to clear up Aibell's gender and most books don't give Aibell a look in.

I think that's most likely because it's a variant spelling; I can find it readily on the web, but in the few books I've referenced it's the third or fourth name.

As far as Ellis' notation, Sean Fogarty says that he lists Aibell as female; I don't own the book myself, so I can't reference it. Perhaps it was an error corrected in a later edition, or a conflation of two separate entities with a similar Anglicized names? I can't be sure, obviously. But if you're looking for Aibell, fairy queen and banshee, then she's female.
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« Reply #16: May 25, 2008, 02:09:45 pm »

I think that's most likely because it's a variant spelling; I can find it readily on the web, but in the few books I've referenced it's the third or fourth name.

It sounds like I'm reading different books to you: recently I'm getting through The Lebor Gabala Erenn and have read Proinsias Mac Cana's "Celtic Mythology" and Alwyn Rees and Brinley Rees' "Celtic Heritage", none of which mention Aibell, Aoibhell, Aebill or any variant - the Oxford book gives nine different spellings.
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« Reply #17: May 25, 2008, 02:13:04 pm »

It sounds like I'm reading different books to you: recently I'm getting through The Lebor Gabala Erenn and have read Proinsias Mac Cana's "Celtic Mythology" and Alwyn Rees and Brinley Rees' "Celtic Heritage", none of which mention Aibell, Aoibhell, Aebill or any variant - the Oxford book gives nine different spellings.

You're going to find her in later myth and some poetry; all references to her that I've come across have been as a fairy queen or a Queen of the TDD (as fairies, not as gods). Also as a banshee, related to Cliodhna. There's a connection to CuChulainn and a harp, too, but I can't recall the details that well.
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« Reply #18: May 25, 2008, 02:25:43 pm »

He's certainly a folklorist, and he states in the volume I mentioned that most of his stories are his own work, pieced together from years of hearing fireside stories from his family.

He is, though, a respected scholar in the CR community (and outside of it). He is always clear to note what is his and what is from a verifiable source. Do you recall which work cited Aibell as a male? I'm curious to do my own research.

Beresford Ellis isn't all that. He's not bad, but he's not good either, and there are some notable mistakes in some of his work, date-wise for one. He writes for a popular audience rather than an academic one, so he takes a few more liberties as such. It's notable that none of his books, as far as I can recall, are actually recommended on the CR FAQ.
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« Reply #19: May 26, 2008, 01:15:09 pm »

It's notable that none of his books, as far as I can recall, are actually recommended on the CR FAQ.

I'd recommend his folklore, especially as he's one of the few authors that when he says "Celtic" he means Cornish, Breton, Manx and Scottish stories, whereas a lot of authors stick to Welsh and Irish with a few Scottish ones thrown in.

But I've got a question marks over a few things he's written in non-folklore books, but further reading will prove whether he is or isn't right.
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« Reply #20: May 26, 2008, 01:17:31 pm »

You're going to find her in later myth and some poetry; all references to her that I've come across have been as a fairy queen or a Queen of the TDD (as fairies, not as gods). Also as a banshee, related to Cliodhna. There's a connection to CuChulainn and a harp, too, but I can't recall the details that well.

Thanks for that.  I've not heard the Cuculainn story, but there are many stories about him and I've reached my saturation point and need to take a break.
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« Reply #21: September 14, 2008, 12:05:44 am »

I agree that the Invasion Cycle is a Creation myth. I think that the Tuatha de Danaan arriving in Ireland,defeating the Fir Bolg and Fomorians and shaping the land is similar to Zeus overthrowing the Titans;who were also representatives of chaotic,uncivilised natures and the Greek gods were said to have introduced order,harmony,civilisation etc. Well,i think this is what the Tuatha de Danaan have done. I think the coming of the Milesians could represent the coming of Christianity and the devaluing of the Gods in to fairies/Aes Sidhe and similar lowly beings. The Milesians talking with Eriu could mean using the land and this plane of existence and forgetting the world of the Gods through disbelief(through the devaluation in to lower beings) and dismissal/a feeling of superiority and not needing the Gods(in their opinion) anymore. 
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« Reply #22: September 14, 2008, 05:29:22 am »

Another thought: these questions beget the question who created the creator? I think at some point in a creation myth, there has to be an acknowledgment of unexplained or incomprehensible existence; perhaps it's just a little further into the creation myth for the Celts than for other cultures.

The creator can be asserted as both necessary and sufficient for it's own existence. It exists because that's what it does so to speak.
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