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Author Topic: How would you define the difference between religion and spirituality?  (Read 3789 times)
Waldfrau
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« Topic Start: June 02, 2008, 10:11:10 am »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?

2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way? Maybe...
  • Religious as a dedication to (a) specific deity/ies or following a specific path (with cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings maybe), but spiritual as an interest in the Other (maybe without dedication, how about cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings)?
  • Spiritual as the opposite of materialistic? If so, how does this ty to religiousity? Would/does the lack of spirituality make you areligious or would/are you then be religions in a materialistic way?
  • Any other idea or definition from any source?

3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independend of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?
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« Reply #1: June 02, 2008, 10:27:21 am »




Relgious for question #1

Religion, to my mind, is both group and intended to be passed from generation to generation. 

Spirituality is personal exploration.

I don't buy into single deity dedication as a requirement of spirituality.  I'll grant that most spiritual people focus on a single deity, but single deity focus (within a polytheisitic religion of course) is still possible.
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« Reply #2: June 02, 2008, 11:17:11 am »


I register that there is a difference between religion and spirituality, but I have no words to define it. I admit to a somewhat negative bias against spirituality, though I don't know where it comes from. I hear it and think "wishy-washy".

Obviously, I define myself as religious, and would say that religion and spirituality are two different things that can be practiced independently. This is all gut feeling, though; I haven't pinpointed the "why"s behind any of it.
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« Reply #3: June 02, 2008, 12:35:43 pm »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?

Both.

Quote
2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?

Yes.  I see them as related and often intertwined, but certainly not the same thing.  I've often described it like this:  Spirituality is the conversation between us and whoever or whatever's out there.  Religion is the language we use to describe that conversation to ourselves and others.

To me, religion is all about the structure.  The words, the names, the movements, the rituals and prayers and offerings.  (A group practice is not necessary for "religion", IMO.  To have "a religion", maybe, possibly, I'm not sure.  To be religious?  Not so much.)  Spirituality is much more a "feeling", something deep within that's difficult to describe in words. 

Quote
3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independend of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?

Neither.  Grin  I think that most people probably have some of both, although in what proportions depends on the person and sometimes one or the other may be present only in a very minimal sense.  I think it's entirely possible to have spirituality without religion and vice versa, although I also personally believe that they work better together than separately.

I might, using your terms, describe spirituality as "faith" and religion as "practice", if that makes sense.  It's not an exact correlation, but it goes in the same general direction I'm trying to go.
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« Reply #4: June 02, 2008, 12:39:50 pm »


Yes.  I see them as related and often intertwined, but certainly not the same thing.  I've often described it like this:  Spirituality is the conversation between us and whoever or whatever's out there.  Religion is the language we use to describe that conversation to ourselves and others.

To me, religion is all about the structure.  The words, the names, the movements, the rituals and prayers and offerings.  (A group practice is not necessary for "religion", IMO.  To have "a religion", maybe, possibly, I'm not sure.  To be religious?  Not so much.)  Spirituality is much more a "feeling", something deep within that's difficult to describe in words. 


Yeah, I'd have to tweak my sort of description.  I'll agree that religion does not require group practice, but change my wording to "must be capable of group practice". 
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Waldfrau
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« Reply #5: June 03, 2008, 07:22:12 am »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?
Both, I see myself as spiritual because I'm doing energy work, for me that means dealing with 'spirit' in a more general sense. I see myself as religious because I feel a relationship to the divine, although I haven't found out yet what kind of exactly.

Quote
2) Definition
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way? Maybe...
  • Religious as a dedication to (a) specific deity/ies or following a specific path (with cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings maybe), but spiritual as an interest in the Other (maybe without dedication, how about cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings)?
  • Spiritual as the opposite of materialistic? If so, how does this ty to religiousity? Would/does the lack of spirituality make you areligious or would/are you then be religions in a materialistic way?
I tend towards both of these distinctions.

The first one is that I see spiritual as experiencing 'spirit', the Other, the numinous etc. basicly and religious as a defined relationship to the divine, the sacred, to deities or one deity (which could include dedications or formal communication/interaction).

The second one I see as two sides of a coin or like you can see light as particle or as wave. That means I don't see a dichotomic difference between matter and spirit, for me every matter does have a spirit/soul and energies or 'soul-stuff' or beings do have a ty to matter for me although different beings have different ties. The soul of a living human for example is much closer tied to his/her body than the soul of a God for example or some spirit being.

Thus I don't see my spirituality as something opposed to materialism, because the materialistic side of something, for example a plant, can tell me about its spirit powers too. And vice versa I think you can reach spiritual goals by working with matter for example cleaning up your room physically can also help you to cleanse yourself spiritually.

Quote
3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independend of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?
I tend towards the first option, but more towards seing spiritual as experiencing or a basical willingness to deal with the numinous, spirit, the invisible, energies, the Other etc., but not necessarily having a defined relationship with it. Religious means for me something along the lines that I define this numinous, spirit etc. as something in a cosmos where it and me have both specific places. For example if I'd define specific energies as specific Gods and then start a relationship with these Gods through formal interaction/communication like worship or/and prayer that would be religious for me. Or if I'd decide that a specific energy I'm feeling at a place is a spirit and I start to give offerings that would be religious for me while feeling the energy would just be spiritual.

So it sums up for me in spiritual being the experience of some numinous power/force, but religious being the definition and adressing of this force and having a defined relationship to it through prayer, worship, offerings etc.

That said I see myself as spiritual and religious, but on my religious side I'm very hazy, because I do feel energies and such and get visited in meditations and dreams, but I'm not yet sure how I should call the entities I'm experiencing. I'm not sure if they are spirits or Gods or if some are spirits and some others are Gods. So I also don't know how to deal with them, what relationship to build, if I should give them offerings, how I should adress them etc.
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« Reply #6: June 03, 2008, 07:31:38 am »

And thanks for the answers! I know the initial post got a bit complicated, I really appreciate that you all tried to answer to it!  Smiley

To me, religion is all about the structure.  The words, the names, the movements, the rituals and prayers and offerings. [...] Spirituality is much more a "feeling", something deep within that's difficult to describe in words.
This helped me a lot to phrase what I'm thinking about the subject and I agree to you here although my conclusion is a bit different. I tend to see spiritual as experience and religious as belief and practice sometimes based on that experience (but not necessarily, not everyone is a mystic).

But I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing.
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« Reply #7: June 03, 2008, 09:12:35 am »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?
I would have to say Spiritual more then religious.  See definition for the way.
Quote
2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way? Maybe...

My definitions could be summed up as Belief vs. Practice.  One can believe in many things, from Healing power or resonance of stone work, to energy work, to being a Hard Polytheist.  Yet, until you actually put those beliefs into structured practice, I wouldn't necessarily call it a religion.

Mostly I would consider Religious being a structured practice towards a/many God(dess)/Deity.  You can believe and be spiritual in it, but not necessarily religious.  My father for example doesn't practice Christianity (save when mom decides to force it upon him) but he does believe in it wholeheartedly.  Therefore I consider him spiritual but not religious.

Quote
3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)

This may negate what I was speaking above, but I would say in a grey area, yes.  You really can't, IMO have religion w/out being spiritual.  Yet in the same instance, there are many levels of each. Confused yet?  Roll Eyes

Quote
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independent of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?

I would have to say that one would have to be spiritual to be religious but not religious to be spiritual.  That said and this post taking me over two hours at work here I am totally confused myself and think I need to stop now.
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« Reply #8: June 03, 2008, 11:01:37 am »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?

Spiritual


2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way? Maybe...
  • Religious as a dedication to (a) specific deity/ies or following a specific path (with cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings maybe), but spiritual as an interest in the Other (maybe without dedication, how about cosmologic and philosophical underpinnings)?
  • Spiritual as the opposite of materialistic? If so, how does this ty to religiousity? Would/does the lack of spirituality make you areligious or would/are you then be religions in a materialistic way?
  • Any other idea or definition from any source?

To me the difference between spiritual and religious is simple. Religion is spirituality practiced with others, given doctrine and rules, and practiced under a name. Spirituality is a personal journey between the individual and their beliefs


3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independend of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?
I think they are independent of each other. Because I believe spirituality requires exploration and study, the questioning and examination of all personal beliefs and the desire to learn more. Religion is the starting ground of basic shared faith. There are many people that never leave that basic place and explore. They just go along blindly believing in one thing - which is fine if thats what works for them - but I would not see it as being terribly spiritual.
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« Reply #9: December 22, 2008, 04:56:11 pm »


As I explained in the thread about stereotypes (trying to recreate that here from memory and expand on it, bear with me):

Question1: I see myself as spiritual but not religious. When I was a child, I felt religious but not spiritual. I went to church, Sunday School, youth group, said all the group recitations, sang all the songs, played the piano for services... but spiritually? Not much, sorry, folks.

When I came across Wicca, after graduating from college and getting married, I felt spiritual but not religious. There was a connection there for me (or so I thought) I hadn't felt while professing Christianity. I wasn't attending regular services (mostly solitary work, with the occasional trip for a holiday moot or such), but I was more aware of "spirit" than I had ever been before. And upon finding myself so drawn to Mahayana Buddhism, I feel that even moreso.

Question 2: These days, I hold the same kind of definition as many before me: Religious equates to "organized religion," of whatever flavor, and unfortunately to those followers of those religions who tend to give them a bad name. "Just because you sleep in a garage doesn't make you a car." Spiritual equates to a connection, a sensation, a feeling, a relationship, outside the box of organized religion.

Spiritual equates to that connection, that sense of belonging to a greater whole, whether it's a deity or The Divine or some unnamed power.

Conclusion: I think it's very possible for someone to be religious (go through all the right motions) without having a shred of spirituality (connection to that higher power, whatever it is).




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« Reply #10: December 22, 2008, 07:54:33 pm »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?

I see myself as both.  I largely follow my path alone in a mixture of simple daily awareness and specific rituals but also participate in more organized group worship when possible.

2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way?

Religion I tend to see as more group-oriented, particularly focused on nurturing the spiritual journey of the individual participants and helping them navigate major life events (sometimes referred to as "hatching, matching, and dispatching").  Spiritual I see as more individual.

I don't see either as requiring or precluding specific types of belief (e.g. in one or more Deities) or rituals.

3) Conclusion:
So does
  • 'religious' and 'spiritual' just describe different aspects of faith & practice (rather like two sides of a coin, one couldn't exist without the other)
  • or are 'religious' and 'spiritual' different characteristics of faith & practice independend of each other (so a person could be spiritual but not religious or vice versa)?

I think it's entirely possible to be either religious or spiritual or both.  I imagine part of that probably involves basic personality characteristics.  For example, I'm far too introverted to have the bulk of my work be group-focused, but I imagine there are some very extraverted folks who would feel the same way about having the bulk of their focus be solitary.
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« Reply #11: December 22, 2008, 08:12:08 pm »

Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?

"Religious" is a system of symbol/practice/belief/associated material associated with the numinous that is sufficiently organised and codified to be practiced by a community with steady transmission of core values, practices, and understandings.

"Spiritual" is a person's individual interaction with the numinous.
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« Reply #12: December 23, 2008, 10:23:13 am »

Thanks for all further thoughts on this complicated subject!

"Religious" is a system of symbol/practice/belief/associated material associated with the numinous that is sufficiently organised and codified to be practiced by a community with steady transmission of core values, practices, and understandings.

"Spiritual" is a person's individual interaction with the numinous.
Thinking about this and how Starglade defines it, I would also define 'religious' as following a system and 'spiritual' as belief in or/and interaction with the numinous, but wouldn't apply it to organized groups vs. individual practice.

For me 'religious' would be following a path, even if it is a solitary one or not strictly structured, but there's an awareness of a way of life influenced by beliefs and regular practice. With path and regular practice I don't necessarily mean an organized (group) religion, but imply solitary paths too and paths which aren't fully developed yet. So for me 'religious' is just following a path, a religious way of life integrated into your biography somehow which might develop as you develop. So my definition of religious could be very individual and personal as well.

'Spiritual' for me would be any belief in or interaction with the numinous/sacred/divine. So IMO it's the core of any serious religiosity (if you don't just go to Church to please your grandma). But being 'spiritual' doesn't necessarily mean that the person forms a way of life ('path') out of it, integrates his/her spirituality into his/her life by joining an organized religion or forming his/her individual spirituality into a personal path of regular practice.

Conclusion:
To me 'spirituality' means interaction with or belief in the numinous/sacred/divine and 'religion' means putting this into a specific way of life (individually or in a group).

So IMO if a person just goes to Church to please his/her grandma, but doesn't really care about contents, he/she follows a religion, but the spiritual core is empty. If someone beliefs in the numinous/sacred/divine and occassionally does some prayer to some entity/the universe etc., he/she is spiritual, but hasn't put his/her beliefs and (occassional) practice into a fully-fledged religion. So IMO spirituality is sort of a ground where religion grows out of like a plant and sometimes you have plants severed from their growing ground as well as virgin grounds or little seedlings. I don't see 'religion' as something that has to be organized by a group with a long tradition, but more as a structured or developing path and way of life.
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« Reply #13: December 23, 2008, 01:23:59 pm »

1) Your beliefs:
Do you see yourself as religious and/or spiritual? In what way/s?

Not religious but I am trying to define for myself the term "spirituality".
I am trying to see the deeper aspects of life beyond the mundane yet to see it without the interference of emotionally charged language.

2) Definition:
Do you see a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'?
If so, in what way?

Naturally there is a difference. Religion relies on the adherence of human created precepts and doctrine. It demands beliefs, rituals and adherence to symbols that are created by humans. Religion can be a tool to help one understand spirituality just as a parable is used to deseminate values and ethics.

The stories are not real but the underlying message is quite valid, sadly what I am seeing more and more is some taking religious myths literally and taking them as actual reality rather than for the symbolic representation that they were meant to be.

Spirituality is not dependant on fables, myths, deities or ritual. They are tools one can choose to use to arrive at a goal but are not the ends themselves. Spirituality is, in my mind, about atempting to understand from a objective standpoint the finer points of existence and that everything is interconnected by a fine web of energy.

Spirituality does not need reliance on personofied/anthropomorphised symbols of the universe in order to understand it. In fac I see that these symbols are becomming more and more of an obstacle because attempting to make the symbols into something that has a "reality" of its own serves only to distract from the real objective.

Religion can be useful as long as it is recognized as a tool and not the ultimate means to an end or even an ends itself.

I am reminded of when I lived in Missouri for a couple of years, my father and I were just coming back from a walk in the local park; we had seen some interesting birds and listened to the rustle of leaves in the wind.
We drove past a church which was well attended and I told my father that I found it sad that all these people are sitting a cold and ugly metal building staring a a book and being told stories or being lectured about..whatever.

I also said that if these people love their god so much then why don't they go outside and look at the trees and listen to the birds as that is the creation of their beloved god and everytime the trees rustle in the wind or a egret stalks some fish in the lake...this is their god whispering to them and all they need to do is put the book down for their god isn't the book or the parables. Their god is all around them all they have to do is expend effort to go out and listen.

It is important not to get so caught up in symbols and rituals that it becomes like blinders or a prison which obfuscates the real world.
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