Cunningham-What's the problem?

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[Estrella]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

[Waldfrau]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

I don't know exactly either, but had the impression that he's a fairly respected author who just writes a few inaccurencies. He's not in the SilverRavenwolf-category, but gets his share of criticism and correction.

I'm reading 'Magical Household' at the moment and like it so far, but I don't have a problem with Neo- or ecclectic Wicca.

[Jenett]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

I don't entirely dislike his work, but I don't recommend it much for two reasons:

1) A lot of his material is somewhat dated.
In the case of the herbal stuff, you're missing more recent medical cautions and understanding. In the case of the _Wicca for a Solitary Practitioner_ kind of thing, there are books out there now that go further, give a wider perspective, and give a more *recent* perspective of what some of your options, choices, and considerations are. As any field develops, the conversation gets more nuanced and 'sophisticated' in terms of the kinds of discussion going on, and I think somewhere towards the more recent end of the spectrum is often a better place to start so you're more aware of the options.

2) There are now books (and sites, and resources) out there that focus entirely on topics that Cunningham covers in a few pages.
If someone is asking about daily devotional practices, I'd much rather recommend a whole book on it (like Dianne Sylvan's _The Circle Within_) than his stuff, which is nice as far as it goes, but very short. If someone is interested in ritual structure, I'd rather suggest Deborah Lipp's _Elements of Ritual_ rather than Cunningham, again for the same reasons. Etc. Etc.

[FierFlye]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

I think the problem is that he is one of the authors who created the idea that Wicca is "anything you want it to be" and that his history is bunk.  As far as the other information in his books, I think you are safe to read.  Although it's always good to cross reference with other sources.

If I'm understanding the criticisms correctly, the bottom line is: feel free to use the practices as outlined in his books, but be careful of the label you apply to them.

[RandallS]

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

Although his books seem to be one of the main sources for the "whatever you come up with is Wicca" idea, it's not so much dislike as there are often now better/more complete/more up-to-date books out there on many of the subjects he wrote about.

[Estrella]

Although his books seem to be one of the main sources for the "whatever you come up with is Wicca" idea, it's not so much dislike as there are often now better/more complete/more up-to-date books out there on many of the subjects he wrote about.

So, would it be better to just skip over him and not even bother with what could be inaccuracies? 

[Juniper]

So, would it be better to just skip over him and not even bother with what could be inaccuracies? 

I wouldn't skip over them entirely, I've actually found a couple of his books to be a rather good read. But when reading his books about Wicca, I would definitely keep in mind that Wicca itself is actually a structured religion and not just 'anything you want it to be'. What Cunningham is talking about is more, IMO, Neo-Wicca or Eclectic Wicca. There's a difference.

[Syrbal]

So, would it be better to just skip over him and not even bother with what could be inaccuracies? 

I guess if I was hunting information on Wicca I might skip his books.  But that isn't what I was after, I like his book on the magical uses of herbs, for instance, since to me  that has nothing to do with Wiccan practice.  I am not Wiccan, but I do make a lot of herbal potions in my personal magical work.
So, I guess it depends on what one expects to gain from the reading.

[Waldfrau]

I guess if I was hunting information on Wicca I might skip his books.  But that isn't what I was after, I like his book on the magical uses of herbs, for instance, since to me  that has nothing to do with Wiccan practice.  I am not Wiccan, but I do make a lot of herbal potions in my personal magical work.
So, I guess it depends on what one expects to gain from the reading.

That fits to 'Magical Household' as well for the parts I've read through yet. It's a useful collection of folk lore and practical ideas, but not much that strikes me as particulary Wiccan. I can't tell very well though.

[Shadowbody]

I don't entirely dislike his work, but I don't recommend it much for two reasons:

1) A lot of his material is somewhat dated.
In the case of the herbal stuff, you're missing more recent medical cautions and understanding. In the case of the _Wicca for a Solitary Practitioner_ kind of thing, there are books out there now that go further, give a wider perspective, and give a more *recent* perspective of what some of your options, choices, and considerations are. As any field develops, the conversation gets more nuanced and 'sophisticated' in terms of the kinds of discussion going on, and I think somewhere towards the more recent end of the spectrum is often a better place to start so you're more aware of the options.

His work is out dated because he's dead and he can no longer put out new editions, but for his time his stuff was state of the art. 

I actually find that Cunningham is a great place to start because he's a great place to jump off from.  He gives you good basics for those still unsure if they want to walk the pagan path and helps those who are sure but still new to find the niche they are most comfortable with.  That's the biggest resource a beginner could ask for and the one reason why I keep his books.  When first starting out, a book that makes you feel comfortable is big plus!  Once a person knows what they are most comfortable with, then they can springboard off of his books to the more recent and detailed books.

I personally believe (and therefore have nothing to back this up) that that was the main purpose to Cunningham's books.  That his readers grow from his teaches and not be bound by them.  He states in his Living Wicca: A Further Guide for the Solitary Practitioner that a new follower should think, pray and question everything they read, including his own books.

Oh, and for anyone studying herbs, if you're looking for medical potions and politices, never do anything without consulting a doctor first!  Any herbalist worth their mortar will tell you that.

[Jenett]

His work is out dated because he's dead and he can no longer put out new editions, but for his time his stuff was state of the art.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean that it's still *the* best source.

Margaret Murray was also state of the art at one point. So was Gerald Gardner. So was Adler's _Drawing Down the Moon_. Or Starhawk's _Spiral Dance_. The first of those, you almost never see as an early recommendation - and even the last three rarely turn up on the "First books you should read, period." or come with a fair bit of annotation (especially the last one, though reading the 20 year anniversary can be really informative.)

That doesn't mean they're the single best place for someone to start with. In some cases, there's some history we now know better about. But in many cases, people have simply gotten more nuanced and clearer at explaining things, or at the structure behind approaching different topics. In other words, people learned and continued to grow.

Because of that - while I think Cunningham is important to read eventually to understand what a shift it caused in various approaches to the Craft - I don't suggest people start there. As I said in the comment you replied to, I'd much rather someone start with more recent titles, or those that go deeper into a particular topic, now that the market better supports that.

In the case of general titles, I'd say that Jennifer Hunter's _21st Century Wicca_, Dana Eilers' _The Practical Pagan_, Marion Green's _A Witch Alone_ and Elen Hawke's books cover much of the same general material territory as Cunningham, while providing additional deeper material, or in a more nuanced presentation, or in some other way continuing to move forward.

I'm pretty sure in 5 years, I'll be recommending another set of books entirely, because other people will have come along and done this even *better*. That's the way learning works, and especially how it works within a community of learners, even one as broad and diverse as Wiccan-influenced paths.

When first starting out, a book that makes you feel comfortable is big plus!  Once a person knows what they are most comfortable with, then they can springboard off of his books to the more recent and detailed books.

But books that make people feel comfortable can also provide poor information. I agree with you that Cunningham is not as bad for this as many other authors (Ravenwolf is a common name here). But he's also limited *because he died and the community has continued to change and grow*. That doesn't invalidate his work: a lot of where the community is now might not have happened in the same ways otherwise, and much of that growth is, all in all, a good thing. But that doesn't mean he remains the best first resource, either.

I'm a librarian: I really want people to find the best quality information they can, and help them learn to do that. Since there are now plenty of authors who write accessible materials that encourage thought and questions, but still help people new to a path who go beyond where Cunningham was stopped by his death, I recommend those instead.

[Shadowbody]

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean that it's still *the* best source.

I'm a librarian: I really want people to find the best quality information they can, and help them learn to do that. Since there are now plenty of authors who write accessible materials that encourage thought and questions, but still help people new to a path who go beyond where Cunningham was stopped by his death, I recommend those instead.

Okay.  I see what you were getting at now. 

[QuercusRobur]

So, would it be better to just skip over him and not even bother with what could be inaccuracies? 

In my humble opinion, it's best to read what you've got and make your own mind up.  There are always people who think a certain author is writing nonsense, and always people who think the same author is the bees knees.

Besides which, I hold the view that you can neither criticise nor applaud an author whose books you haven't read.

[mandrina]

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean that it's still *the* best source.

Margaret Murray was also state of the art at one point. So was Gerald Gardner. So was Adler's _Drawing Down the Moon_. Or Starhawk's _Spiral Dance_. The first of those, you almost never see as an early recommendation - and even the last three rarely turn up on the "First books you should read, period." or come with a fair bit of annotation (especially the last one, though reading the 20 year anniversary can be really informative.)

I would consider all of these as good reading for a historical focus (among other reasons, even if not as an intro to wicca, neo wicca or whatever).  When one is ready to see where the religion came from and permutations.   ANd it's kind of wierd to hear Margot Adler on NPR.  "Oh, I read her book, it was literally my first."

[Jenett]

I would consider all of these as good reading for a historical focus (among other reasons, even if not as an intro to wicca, neo wicca or whatever).  When one is ready to see where the religion came from and permutations.   ANd it's kind of wierd to hear Margot Adler on NPR.  "Oh, I read her book, it was literally my first."

I'm with you - I think they're all worth reading eventually. But as I said in the bit you quoted, they're not the place I'd tell someone to start. And, these days, they're dropping off more and more people's lists of where to start, too.

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