Cunningham-What's the problem?

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[RandallS]

In my humble opinion, it's best to read what you've got and make your own mind up.  There are always people who think a certain author is writing nonsense, and always people who think the same author is the bees knees.

This is a great attitude, provided you already know enough about a subject to have some idea what is good and bad. I've seen too many people read bad books as there intro to a subject who then have to be convinced that what they first read wasn't very accurate and then unlearn it.

[JenniferK]

This is a great attitude, provided you already know enough about a subject to have some idea what is good and bad. I've seen too many people read bad books as there intro to a subject who then have to be convinced that what they first read wasn't very accurate and then unlearn it.

Randall is right in this.

The first impression in something does tend to be the strongest.


Jennifer Adele K

[Figment99]

In my humble opinion, it's best to read what you've got and make your own mind up.  There are always people who think a certain author is writing nonsense, and always people who think the same author is the bees knees.

Besides which, I hold the view that you can neither criticise nor applaud an author whose books you haven't read.

This is very true. Cunningham, although he may not be the best, isn't a bad place to start. What others have said is also correct. His books are dated, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it for what it is worth. He does have some good basics in his book.

For example of out dated: many older pagan herbal and just everyday herbal books say that it is find to make borage tea as a sedative and that the flowers are great in salads. What they have found out in the last couple of years is that borage causes serious liver damage and can lead to cancer.

Personally I believe that you should read whatever strikes your fancy. Sometimes you will read something that will stick with you, if you think something just doesn't seem right, find a different book and see what it says. Reading, researching, studying  is something I really enjoy... you never know what you will find when you turn the next page.

[Aisling]

For example of out dated: many older pagan herbal and just everyday herbal books say that it is find to make borage tea as a sedative and that the flowers are great in salads. What they have found out in the last couple of years is that borage causes serious liver damage and can lead to cancer.

(above emphasis is mine)

 

 Information about possible liver toxicity related to borage has been around for quite some time (long enough that a 20+ year old herbal encyclopedia I own makes mention of it). The 2003 version of Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs also indicates that the herb isn't safe for internal use.  IIRC, the concern with borage isn't occasional usage as a food stuff, but long term, regular usage of the herb.

[Lumara]

Personally I believe that you should read whatever strikes your fancy. Sometimes you will read something that will stick with you, if you think something just doesn't seem right, find a different book and see what it says. Reading, researching, studying  is something I really enjoy... you never know what you will find when you turn the next page.

I agree with this. I like both Cunningham's and Silver Raven Wolf's books, which apparently makes me a minority here, but that's OK. 

[rose]

I agree with this. I like both Cunningham's and Silver Raven Wolf's books, which apparently makes me a minority here, but that's OK. 

(Rose scooches over on the minority gal's bench....pats seat.... welcome, Lumara ) I have never read Silver Ravenwolf, but I've read all kinds of everything. Even stuff that is very silly often has something in it that I need. One of the first truly witchy books I read, when I was coming back into practice several years ago, was a completely dopey book by Poppy Palin. But I'm not sorry, i got some good from it, if only in that I understood that I was way past the stuff she was talking about, and that pointed me more in the direction I needed to go.

[Figment99]

 Information about possible liver toxicity related to borage has been around for quite some time (long enough that a 20+ year old herbal encyclopedia I own makes mention of it).

Hmm... a couple of the books I have authors' must be really out of date. I have a couple of very informative herbals that are from the late 90s that don't have the new borage info. Of course it is in my newer ones. Strange how some authors will pick up on the new research and some don't.

[MeadowSweet]

I think the problem is that he is one of the authors who created the idea that Wicca is "anything you want it to be" and that his history is bunk.

Can you give an example?  From what I recall (granted it's been a long time, and I can't look it up right now because most of my books were lost to a fire) Cunningham avoided making any historical claims.

I think what Cunningham was striving to do was to pare Wicca down to its most essential, minimalistic basics, so the practioner could see the basic teachings at work in whatever tradition they went on to study further.  This, unfortunately had the effect of coming accross as "whatever you want to be" in the practice of a lot of his readers, who didn't take the additional steps of study.

He did, however, open the door for a lot of solitaries, with all the good and bad that implies.

In that regards, it's not so much a "bad" book to begin with, so much as it is one that shouldn't stand alone.  I've used it, with guidance, to convey the basics and skeletal structure of ritual to my son, applying it to our family tradition (granted, I'm more of a hedge witch, which is NOT Wicca.)

I do agree that there are better, more up-to-date sources in recent years to begin with.  But I also recommend reading the "classics" like the Farrar's Witches' Bible and The Spiral Dance.  Even Uncle Bucky's Big Blue Book O' Fun can have its usage, if you look at it in terms of Pagan culture rather than history or practice.  (I'll admit: I enjoy Buckland's book for all the rather dated crafty instructions on how to make stuff and the recipes, as silly as it is.  Although his chapter on herbalism was plaigerized word-for-word from Meyer's The Herbalist.  Still, if it's approached with an attitude of play rather than serious study, it's a fun book.)

[QuercusRobur]

This is a great attitude, provided you already know enough about a subject to have some idea what is good and bad. I've seen too many people read bad books as there intro to a subject who then have to be convinced that what they first read wasn't very accurate and then unlearn it.

You have a point, which is why my list of Irish books to read is made up of recommendations from people I respect.  I always order books from the library, as it costs £3 max (that's an out of county book, it's usually £1 for one in county) and buy them if I like them.

9 out of 10 books recommended by people I don't respect or reviews I hand back to the library and thank the gods I didn't waste my money on them.  9 out of 10 books recommended by people I do respect I then go on to purchase.

[Hannah]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

I read "Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner" and took several critical notes on it in the book as I read. I think my main problem with it was Cunningham's kind of "Wicca is superior and has been around forever" attitude that these days can be classified as "fluffy". As far as the information he provided, to me it seemed to be leaning very much toward the BTW area of Wicca. All things aside I consider it a good reference, but I've noticed that with this book (and with all others) it is important to keep an open mind and not blindly read the book cover-to-cover, soaking in all the opinions and information. You really have to think for yourself while reading books like this, especially ones that discuss ethical matters.

[tigerlily717]

I have been sensing a lot of dislike towards Cunningham.  I've never read any of his stuff (Just bought a book by him-"Wicca-a Guide to the Solitary Practitioner"-haven't started reading it yet) so...

I'm just wondering why there is so much dislike towards him?

I have read many of Cunningham's books, as well as Ravenwolf, Buckland, and even Lavey's Satanic Witch.  I love Cunningham's simplistic approach because it shows that you do not have to be Yensid the sorcerer (Disney's Fantasia) to be a witch.  YOU have power.  Not just Them.  You can learn to use this power just as well as them.  And this broken down fundamental approach eases the fear away.  This is important to any newbie, the idea of comfort.  The idea that they CAN.  Period. 

Most of Cunningham is beginner, and I don't think he tries to encompass the higher aspects on purpose, to not scare anyone away.  Now this may seem a cop out to some, or a way to appeal to the masses instead of taking a specific stand, but that's the point.  Welcoming.  It seemed to me he was giving basic information.  And maybe there were things that I unconsciously skipped over, but I don't recall any fluffiness.  And, I found there to be a general lack in the choosing of sides when it came to specific pantheons/gods/deities/spirits.  It seemed to me to be the whole point.  Teaching technique, not belief.  Now that's not to say he didn't speak about beliefs, but those are his.  Many people state their own as fact, let's face it.  Anyone who isn't satisfied with what he is teaching, or feels it isn't right, can read other books in addition to his.  This is something he states, as does Ravenwolf and Buckland and pretty much every other good writer. 

I found his books to be inspiring and easy on my confusion, at that time in my life.  Same with ravenwolf.  They're easy to follow, give you a general overview of practices and beliefs, and a good base to jump off of.  As writers, I like their style.  This effects us as readers.  Either drawing us in or pushing us away.  Buckland is a more technical writer and so it took me longer to ease into them.  I still can't read one of his books straight through.  The format of a Cunningham book is also easy to jump around, and this is one of the things that keeps his books on my shelf.  He also has individual reference books, which I find to be very comprehensive.  That's more than I can say for those other books who list ten or twenty "commonly" used herbs or stones.  (which incidentally are the same ten herbs in all basics books)

I read a lot of the new books too, but I stick with him because I feel he gives unbiased info, very non denominational, and this works for me because I do not follow a specific pantheon.  For those that do follow a particular order/path/denomination, they can feel as though he's leaving things out.  But it's okay to do that to make a book palatable.  It's done all the time.  So, when one recommends a book to someone, they can name one on a particular path disguised as fundamental or unbiased, or a basic book to lead someone to create their own path.  I prefer the latter of the two.  But that's what worked for me.  Most importantly, the reader has to be aware of the fact that what they are reading is the opinion of one person, and that to get the whole of it, they have to continue reading.  This is commonsense.  If I fear the person to whom I'm recommending does not have the commonsense to separate fact from opinion, then I'd rather mention a safe, unbiased overview like Cunningham.

[leigh137]

... but I've noticed that with this book (and with all others) it is important to keep an open mind and not blindly read the book cover-to-cover, soaking in all the opinions and information. You really have to think for yourself while reading books like this, especially ones that discuss ethical matters.

Isn't that what we should be doing anyway? When I started walking my path oh so many years ago I was taught to question everything. I always thought that was pretty standard since so many of us come to paganism through questioning whatever we believed before.

[dragonfly_high]

Isn't that what we should be doing anyway? When I started walking my path oh so many years ago I was taught to question everything. I always thought that was pretty standard since so many of us come to paganism through questioning whatever we believed before.

We should, but I know several pagans that will believe ANYTHING told them.  They are the nicest people you could meet, but if they read it in a book or told by a so-called 'Experienced Pagans' or ones calling themselves Elders.  I was also involved with a group that claimed they told the new ones to question everything, but if you did they got pissed. Got me kicked out of the group.

[leigh137]

Got me kicked out of the group.

Oh I would get myself kicked out of a group like that too. I'm all about questioning! 

[Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)]

I was also involved with a group that claimed they told the new ones to question everything, but if you did they got pissed. Got me kicked out of the group.

That's fairly common with groups that pride themselves on being different/more open to questioning/etc., than other groups, especially if they formed as a reaction to those other groups.  As long as you're 'different' in the same direction they are, or question the same things they question, you're fine.  If you question their own storyline or consensus, however, you are threatening their cohesiveness and group identity.

It would be more honest to phrase it as 'question everything except what we accept as a group'.

Then again, ex-members make great scapegoats.

Absent

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