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Author Topic: Magick & The Astral  (Read 6558 times)
Garnet
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« Reply #15: July 24, 2008, 01:49:15 pm »

I've also heard that if you keep a glass of water nearby, you won't get lost.  I have no idea why that would work (except as a placebo-type thing to help you relax and stop worrying).  Has anyone else heard that one?

I haven't heard of that one, although I do keep a glass of water nearby, to have ready when I come "back" to make sure I'm fully in my body.

One I have heard is to keep an iron nail on the altar to call you back.  That one's originally from Victor Anderson, I think.
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Garnet
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« Reply #16: July 24, 2008, 07:54:41 pm »

I've read through this entire thread, and thank you everyone for your advice, and yes I'd love any website you have on Ceremonial Magick.  I don't know what I'm searching for currently, but I'm on the prowl for something.  So maybe one of those websites yields the answer? 

I second the recommendation of Asiya's Shadows.  I also really like The Hermetic Library. There's a *lot* of neat sites on there.  Definitely check out Magick Without Tears in the Crowley section.
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« Reply #17: July 25, 2008, 01:41:25 am »

That's a very nice site.  Thanks for the link!

A friend recommended it several years back.  I just refound it a couple of weeks ago.  I think it has some decent links IIRC.  Then again, I haven't been on it too much since I found it.

I was doing some research at the time and ask around about sites or places I could find certain books.  (Yahoo chats are sometimes good for something.)
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« Reply #18: July 25, 2008, 01:54:09 am »

Yes, you can pretty much do what you think you can do in astral space, unless the area is controlled by another, stronger will --or is a "stable" part of the Astral.

Yes and yes.

What do you mean a stronger will? And what is/where is a stable part of Astral? I thought that astral-ing was separating the soul from the body and allowing the soul to wander the real Earth?

I was wondering because I projected once and I just so happened to be right by my Teacher. I followed him and he tried to tell me that when Im in that state, I can walk thru walls and solid objects like I was a ghost. But I didnt understand him. Also, when I saw him the next day, I asked him why I was..uh... inappropriately dressed, and he said that he saw me in all black clothes.  Lips sealed Shocked
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« Reply #19: July 25, 2008, 08:22:10 am »

What do you mean a stronger will?

Most of the astral plane will look like whatever someone there wants it to look like. Want to fly, well you can. Etc.  However, if someone or something with a stronger will in in the area, what they want may be imposed on you.

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And what is/where is a stable part of Astral?

There aren't any real maps, but some parts are more stable than others -- places visited by many over the ages for certain purposes, areas shaped by magical orders, etc.

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I thought that astral-ing was separating the soul from the body and allowing the soul to wander the real Earth?

In the Western Magical tradition, the astral body is not the same as the soul. I have no idea what you mean by "the real Earth," sorry.
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« Reply #20: July 25, 2008, 11:45:38 am »

I thought that astral-ing was separating the soul from the body and allowing the soul to wander the real Earth?

This is not a very common interpretation anymore, and has never been a common practice.  It takes a different kind of training, and a different support network to accomplish, and has its own dangers and problems.  Its not the kind of thing you do for self-discovery or sight-seeing.  In fact, if you don't have a strong reason in the first place it isn't really worth the years it can take to learn it.

Not to mention, the definition of 'the real Earth' can be a bit fluid in that state.

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« Reply #21: July 25, 2008, 05:35:16 pm »

This is not a very common interpretation anymore, and has never been a common practice.  It takes a different kind of training, and a different support network to accomplish, and has its own dangers and problems.  Its not the kind of thing you do for self-discovery or sight-seeing.  In fact, if you don't have a strong reason in the first place it isn't really worth the years it can take to learn it.

What problems would you have and what are the dangers? And I always thought that projecting was a part of witchcraft and I would learn it from my Teacher.

If you don't astral for yourself, then why would you do it?

Not to mention, the definition of 'the real Earth' can be a bit fluid in that state.

RandallS asked what I meant when I said "real Earth", so Ill answer him and you, Smiley
I meant the world (or dimension, whatever you want to call it) that we walk when we are awake. I mean the world that you are in right now as you read this. But I dont know anything about the astral plane, so...
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« Reply #22: July 25, 2008, 09:13:01 pm »

What problems would you have and what are the dangers? And I always thought that projecting was a part of witchcraft and I would learn it from my Teacher.

It may be.  i don't have an official list of what is part and what is not part of witchcraft.  The techniques you would learn from your teacher would depend on what they had learned themselves and decided to pass on.  Every thing in life has its dangers, and I imagine they would be taught to you as part of the lesson.


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If you don't astral for yourself, then why would you do it?

For your community, in service to them, when nothing else will solve the problem.

I meant the world (or dimension, whatever you want to call it) that we walk when we are awake. I mean the world that you are in right now as you read this. But I dont know anything about the astral plane, so...

In general, I believe the astral is considered to be another plane of existence, with some points of attachment between it and this one, but with many alien, un-formed, or, well, just different places in it.  In the kind of projection I'm talking about there is more overlap and you can just go into the next room and see what's happening there, if you have the control.  The problem is that moving once separated is tricky and it is difficult to control the distance and direction of a single step.  There are other worlds within this one, or overlaid on this one, that you can't perceive until you're out of your body, and they can be confusing, dangerous, and informative.

When people talk about getting lost, losing yourself, needing a set of people in support or some way of identifying your starting place, they are usually talking about the same sort of thing I am.  It is an actual physical separation, rather than a mental or spiritual one, with attendant physical consequences.  In many cases it is more limited than the other variety, and has a much more narrow range of application.  And, as I said, it is more community oriented than personal development oriented.

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« Reply #23: July 25, 2008, 10:43:50 pm »

It is an actual physical separation, rather than a mental or spiritual one, with attendant physical consequences.

One other traditional warning, also physical:

In people who already have some concerns about this, there's a classic warning about how the first times you do astral work (until you are comfortable in how you, personally, respond), you should have a spotter/friend/guide/teacher handy, because in a very few people, the autonomic physical functions can get a little messed up.

In my case, I'm asthmatic, and have some long-ago lung scarring: my lungs are my major weak point. While I never woke up choking or anything, I did come out of astral work (and some other intense meditational work) a few times very aware that my breathing patterns had been pushing toward stuff that would cause problems if anything went wrong (or even if I'd been doing it at a time of year when I had more allergy issues, or had a cold.) Nothing did go wrong, but y'know, not the thing I want to play with.

(As I got more experience, this disappeared: it really was maybe the first 10 times, plus some additional attention when I tried new methods for the first time after that. I don't, for example, try some new meditation technique without someone else around if I've already been having asthma issues that week/day.)

The spotter doesn't need to be trained in this themselves - they just have to have a few ways to bring you back gently if they get worried. Saying your name a few times and touching your hand gently is usually plenty - just enough to kickstart that automatic process stuff properly. (In this example, them syncing their breath with you, and then establishing a clear rhythm would also work well.)
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« Reply #24: July 25, 2008, 11:14:26 pm »

Nothing did go wrong, but y'know, not the thing I want to play with.

Exactly.  With me it's heart issues.  I want someone there with the nitro if I need it, and, because of adult onset diabetes and a couple of other inherited conditions I can't always be sure my fine motor skills will be good enough to work the spray, especially when re-integrating consciousness and body.

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"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
- Jack E. Leonard

Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

L Cohen
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« Reply #25: July 25, 2008, 11:25:51 pm »

And I always thought that projecting was a part of witchcraft and I would learn it from my Teacher. 

I learned a method of projecting as part of my most "formal" witchcraft training.  But it wasn't as "out-of-body" as what Marilyn is describing, although it was a bit moreso than what I usually do.
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wisdomsbane
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« Reply #26: July 26, 2008, 12:45:14 am »

What problems would you have and what are the dangers? And I always thought that projecting was a part of witchcraft and I would learn it from my Teacher.

That depends on what you mean by Witchcraft, and eve3n then on what specific group within the type.  For example some call Wicca witchcraft, others say there is a specific magical school of thought that is witchcraft, others consider any form of nonceremonial magic witchcraft, and so on.  Then when you dig deeper, some things can be part of any of the above, depending on the teacher, tradition, etc.

Saying that astral travel is part of witchcraft, is like saying magic is part of paganism.  Basically, not necessarily.  If your teacher has stated that they will teach you this, then so be it.  But if you haven't been told, and are just running on the assumption, then I suggest that you ask your teacher.  You may be in for a big disappointment.

Astral travel, like any form of divination, is considered to be one of many occult arts/sciences/crafts (different people have different preferences as to what exactly to call these), and there are many groups that call themselves Witches, and their craft/religion Witchcraft, who do not use some of them, including astral work of any kind (if you want to get specific some don't even believe in it).

Okay I think I''m done confusing you for now.  I'll be back later if I think of anything else.
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