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Author Topic: Pagan fiction  (Read 11679 times)
Psimon
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« Reply #15: June 22, 2008, 09:29:54 pm »

Diane Duane's _So you want to be a wizard_ series, the second of which (_Deep Wizardry_) is really high on my 'top books someone should read about initiatory paths'

Charles de Lint

Yes yes yes to both. Also, in the days of yore, I read a young-adult book called The China Garden, by Liz Berry. It was heavily heavily Pagan. I remember rather liking it as a pre-teen, but that's no indication of how good it actually was. In retrospect, Tamora Pierce's books are pretty Pagan too -- Alanna talks to the Goddess, Daine is the daughter of a god, etc etc.
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« Reply #16: July 09, 2008, 07:26:08 pm »

Also, the Sevenwaters trilogy by Juliet Marillier is very good.

Gosh this really is awful of me; it's taken me all of this time to figure out that I have in fact read this trilogy. I wrote down some of the recommendations here, including this one, and yet I was sure it sounded familiar. I think it's because I didn't recognize it as 'Sevenwaters'. But am I right in thinking the first one is called 'Daughter of the Forest'? If this is what I am thinking of, then yes this is a really good set of novels.

I've never read anything else like it, though I would love to.
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« Reply #17: July 10, 2008, 02:47:46 am »

Diane Duane's _So you want to be a wizard_ series, the second of which (_Deep Wizardry_) is really high on my 'top books someone should read about initiatory paths'
Haven't read those yet, but must admit that I liked her Star Trek novels when I had a ST geek phase.

***

I wonder are there any Pagan fiction books which are reality-like? I mean portraying Pagans for example, but not in a fantazy or sci-fi way? (And I don't mean crime novels with occult murders either...)
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« Reply #18: July 10, 2008, 11:02:26 am »

Haven't read those yet, but must admit that I liked her Star Trek novels when I had a ST geek phase.

***

I wonder are there any Pagan fiction books which are reality-like? I mean portraying Pagans for example, but not in a fantazy or sci-fi way? (And I don't mean crime novels with occult murders either...)

Yeah, Starhawk has written some. The Fifth Sacred Thing and Walking To Mercury. Haven't read them, though, I am not reading much fiction lately.
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« Reply #19: July 10, 2008, 12:04:33 pm »

Quote
I wonder are there any Pagan fiction books which are reality-like? I mean portraying Pagans for example, but not in a fantazy or sci-fi way? (And I don't mean crime novels with occult murders either...)

Sort of depends what you mean: the Starhawk novels Rose mentions are still SF (they're post-apocalypse novels.)

The thing is with fiction is that if nothing interesting happens, you don't have much of a story. Thus, plots tend to be about the very unusual things, often, not the normal boring daily life things.

There's also levels of way off the chart: Rosemary Edghill's Bast novels and stories are mysteries, and they are somewhat exaggerated - but not hugely. I'd say at least 90% of what's in them is stuff I've seen myself in the community, just that doesn't extend to murder (without which you wouldn't have the mystery part of the plot.) That includes things like unsavory groups, people with magical agendas, etc, as well as the good stuff.

M.R. Sellar's stuff is somewhat more exaggerated than that, but again, the majority is basic common Pagan stuff.

Some other things to look at (some of which I think I've mentioned in this thread before.)

The anthology _Words of the Witches_ edited by Yvonne Jocks - there's some stuff that's more 'out there', but there are also a lot of stories that are very much common experiences. (I think this is partly because short stories have different plot demands.)

Gael Baudino's _Gossamer Axe_ has a protagonist who is very clearly Pagan, but also magical stuff that goes beyond what most of us would be doing.

S.M. Stirling's _Dies the Fire_ and sequels are a post-apocalypse series (well, technology stops working) where one of the primary groups that bands together is lead by a Wiccan priestess. The religious bits resonate pretty close to accurate, but the setting, obviously, is not the world we live in.

Katherine Kurtz's Adept novel series are not about Pagans, but are about an esoteric order, more or less.

While digging around, was reminded of two reading list links.

One from the Fiction-L list for librarians, which doesn't have further information (they just list author/title) but can be a good starting point: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flbklists/pagan.html

There's a nice list with more descriptive info over here: http://www.soulrebels.com/beth/pagrec.html
(I've got some different takes on some of the books she mentioned, but she does a good job of basic summary/info so you can decide which ones you're more interested in.)
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« Reply #20: July 10, 2008, 12:19:19 pm »

Sort of depends what you mean: the Starhawk novels Rose mentions are still SF (they're post-apocalypse novels.)

The thing is with fiction is that if nothing interesting happens, you don't have much of a story. Thus, plots tend to be about the very unusual things, often, not the normal boring daily life things.

There's also levels of way off the chart: Rosemary Edghill's Bast novels and stories are mysteries, and they are somewhat exaggerated - but not hugely. I'd say at least 90% of what's in them is stuff I've seen myself in the community, just that doesn't extend to murder (without which you wouldn't have the mystery part of the plot.) That includes things like unsavory groups, people with magical agendas, etc, as well as the good stuff.

M.R. Sellar's stuff is somewhat more exaggerated than that, but again, the majority is basic common Pagan stuff.

Some other things to look at (some of which I think I've mentioned in this thread before.)

The anthology _Words of the Witches_ edited by Yvonne Jocks - there's some stuff that's more 'out there', but there are also a lot of stories that are very much common experiences. (I think this is partly because short stories have different plot demands.)

Gael Baudino's _Gossamer Axe_ has a protagonist who is very clearly Pagan, but also magical stuff that goes beyond what most of us would be doing.

S.M. Stirling's _Dies the Fire_ and sequels are a post-apocalypse series (well, technology stops working) where one of the primary groups that bands together is lead by a Wiccan priestess. The religious bits resonate pretty close to accurate, but the setting, obviously, is not the world we live in.

Katherine Kurtz's Adept novel series are not about Pagans, but are about an esoteric order, more or less.

While digging around, was reminded of two reading list links.

One from the Fiction-L list for librarians, which doesn't have further information (they just list author/title) but can be a good starting point: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flbklists/pagan.html

There's a nice list with more descriptive info over here: http://www.soulrebels.com/beth/pagrec.html
(I've got some different takes on some of the books she mentioned, but she does a good job of basic summary/info so you can decide which ones you're more interested in.)
hey thanks Jennett, what a great list! Maybe I'll start reading fiction again...
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  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #21: July 11, 2008, 05:48:59 pm »


I wonder are there any Pagan fiction books which are reality-like? I mean portraying Pagans for example, but not in a fantazy or sci-fi way? (And I don't mean crime novels with occult murders either...)

Here's one I didn't mention earlier.

Lammas Night by Katherine Kurtz. it's loosely based on the supposedly true story of a grand coven who gathered to perform a ritual to raise a cone of power over Britain to turn back Hitlers forces on Lammas night 1940.

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« Reply #22: July 15, 2008, 05:46:08 am »

There's a nice list with more descriptive info over here: http://www.soulrebels.com/beth/pagrec.html
(I've got some different takes on some of the books she mentioned, but she does a good job of basic summary/info so you can decide which ones you're more interested in.)
Neat overview. I ordered Edghill's 'Speak Daggers to Her'. Smiley

Hope it arrives before I decide to read something else or don't have the time. Books from the US often take 3 weeks, which causes some chaos in my shelves because when I'm in the mood for a specific kind of fiction I order a couple of them and then they come when my mood has changed towards something else. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23: July 24, 2008, 09:37:11 pm »

But I had a recommendation on my Amazon account of a book called Confessions of a Pagan nun by Kate Horsley, and the synopsis sounds fantastic so I put it in my cart. It's about one of St Bridget's nuns in Kildare.

I absolutely hated this book. It's really short and the prose is just terrible.

I didn't hate it, but I honestly didn't understand the hype.  It was slow, repetitive, and stilted in an obvious way.  But as you mentioned, it was at least blessedly short.  Wink

I just finished reading this book, and I thought it was really good. Yes it was short; but then again, if Kate Horsley had of made it any longer than she would have been telling things that never really happened. Which seems a bit silly really when the rest of it was as close to the translation of the codex as one could get. By the sounds of it, all Kate Horlsey really did was put in punctuation and capitalizations, and include footnotes at the bottom to explain the certan Gaelic words and latin translations used.

I found it to be a fantastic glimpse into the time period, and really enjoyed reading it.
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« Reply #24: August 21, 2008, 01:23:22 pm »

Sort of depends what you mean: the Starhawk novels Rose mentions are still SF (they're post-apocalypse novels.)

The thing is with fiction is that if nothing interesting happens, you don't have much of a story. Thus, plots tend to be about the very unusual things, often, not the normal boring daily life things.

There's also levels of way off the chart: Rosemary Edghill's Bast novels and stories are mysteries, and they are somewhat exaggerated - but not hugely. I'd say at least 90% of what's in them is stuff I've seen myself in the community, just that doesn't extend to murder (without which you wouldn't have the mystery part of the plot.) That includes things like unsavory groups, people with magical agendas, etc, as well as the good stuff.

(...)

While digging around, was reminded of two reading list links.

One from the Fiction-L list for librarians, which doesn't have further information (they just list author/title) but can be a good starting point: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flbklists/pagan.html

There's a nice list with more descriptive info over here: http://www.soulrebels.com/beth/pagrec.html
(I've got some different takes on some of the books she mentioned, but she does a good job of basic summary/info so you can decide which ones you're more interested in.)
Thanks for recommending Edghill! I've just finished 'Speak Daggers to Her' and was pretty impressed. Although I stated that I didn't want to read anything with occult murders, but I was thinking about some 'normal' police investigater discovering some spooky voodoo stuff... So I was astonished that book wasn't quite this sort of the genre 'crime novel'. Loved the investigating lady and even learned a couple of things. Might sound fluffy, but the spontanous visualizations she did...I'm doing stuff like that since years too, whithout knowing that it might work or that other people do it too. *blush* I thought it was just my overactive phantasy streching its legs. Don't get me wrong. I'm not doing it expertedly, just kind of spontanous intuitive without realizing what I'm doing. I don't tell myself to do a visualization to achieve this and that. And not that I do it on every occassion, sometimes it just happens. I just play around in my mind, some energy flows into some directions and it's done before I realize what's happening. Interesting to read such a thing is 'normal' for some people and some can even do it intentionally. Gives me hopes to understand myself better some day. Smiley (Now the newbie haters can throw some stones on me for over-fluffiness. *ducks*)

Can't say the book has a 'high literary style' though, but the contents really impressed me. (Don't get me wrong I know it's fiction and some stuff might be exaggerated.)

Ordered also the next 2 volumes of the serious and can't await there arrival (in 2 till 3 weeks from the US).


Has anyone else read books by Edghill? How did you like them? Are there any reviews or discussion on them out in the net? I've read the short one mentioned in the link given by Jenett above. Did you also found Bast 'flippant' like the review told? (I'm not sure what flippant is supposed to mean, but I'll consult my dictionary later on it.)
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« Reply #25: August 21, 2008, 02:04:31 pm »



Slightly OT, but not really, has anyone read "Song of an Emerald Dove" by Xanna Vinson?  It's specifically Wiccan fiction, about a group of priestesses who have visions about terrible things that are happening/will happen in the world, or somesuch.  I just bought it because she's the HPS of the local Gardnerian coven and I wanted to kind of get a feel for her views etc.  But I've read about four pages and just can't bring myself to pick it up.

Any takers?
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« Reply #26: August 21, 2008, 05:41:06 pm »

Slightly OT, but not really, has anyone read "Song of an Emerald Dove" by Xanna Vinson?  It's specifically Wiccan fiction, about a group of priestesses who have visions about terrible things that are happening/will happen in the world, or somesuch.  I just bought it because she's the HPS of the local Gardnerian coven and I wanted to kind of get a feel for her views etc.  But I've read about four pages and just can't bring myself to pick it up.

Any takers?

you could sign yourself up on Paperbackswap.com. There are a lot of pagan fiction readers there, and we need more occult books in the system, for sure.
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Goddess grant me:
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  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #27: August 21, 2008, 05:55:40 pm »

you could sign yourself up on Paperbackswap.com. There are a lot of pagan fiction readers there, and we need more occult books in the system, for sure.

Oooh thanks for the link!  Looks like it could be fun.
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« Reply #28: August 21, 2008, 10:41:23 pm »

Can't say the book has a 'high literary style' though, but the contents really impressed me. (Don't get me wrong I know it's fiction and some stuff might be exaggerated.)

I don't know how familiar you are with common English-language genre conventions.

One librarian I did a workshop with last spring (Nancy Pearl, who's quite well known in the US, considering) breaks down books into four basic gateways - many books have a door of some size for multiple gateways, but not all books have all of them.

She breaks these down into:
- Story (what happens next)
- Character (who's doing it, and what they're like)
- Setting (time, place, etc.)
- Language (style of the writing)

The Bast books fall very comfortably into the mystery genre: these tend to be heavy on either Story or Character or Setting, with some variations. (Historical mysteries obviously have a lot of Setting interest, while a thriller might have a lot of Story.) But Language is not always a main point - it's not usually why people read the genre.

(Now, if you do want to read some really lovely mystery prose, on a stylistic level, I recommend Dorothy L. Sayers. Or, I'd recommend Jo Walton's books, but the mystery series may not be available in Germany. (They're in an alternate history where Hitler was not defeated: the covers do have a swastika on them.) The books, for the curious, are _Farthing_, _Ha'Penny_ and _Half A Crown_ (which is either just out, or about to come out.) They're not at all Pagan-focused, but they do raise a number of ethical choices and issues, and a lot of questions about how we live in the world. Jo's prose is fabulous and very character-appropriate, but I'm biased: I got to read all three as a beta reader before she did revisions, along with a number of her other friends.)

Quote
Has anyone else read books by Edghill? How did you like them? Are there any reviews or discussion on them out in the net? I've read the short one mentioned in the link given by Jenett above. Did you also found Bast 'flippant' like the review told? (I'm not sure what flippant is supposed to mean, but I'll consult my dictionary later on it.)

Edghill was an early poster on the Amber and Jet mailing list (and somewhere in the first 10,000 posts on the archives, I'm pretty sure there's some discussion of the books in there. But the archives are huge.) I'm sure there are reviews in various other places, too.

As far as flippant - flippant means something like being lighthearted about a serious topic, or brushing something off. I'd probably say snarky, but that's also non-standard English. Irreverant might also apply.

I think Bast is opinionated. I think she doesn't always have a lot of patience for people who are foolish or dangerous. But I'd describe her more as a classic East Coast cynic rather than flippant. Her attitude has always rather reminded me of people who work tech support - or especially in customer service relating to online abuse issues. As my manager when I was doing volunteer work with this said: "I care deeply about the individual person I'm trying to help right then - but people in general often bug me to hell." And that kind of work requires that you be able to drop your feelings about that situation, and move on when you've done your piece in it.

(Huh. I hadn't quite thought about how this is related to how I handle public Pagan activities. I care about doing them well, but my identity and self-worth is not tied up in any single encounter, or even dozens of them.)
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« Reply #29: August 25, 2008, 03:39:45 pm »

The Bast books fall very comfortably into the mystery genre: these tend to be heavy on either Story or Character or Setting, with some variations. (Historical mysteries obviously have a lot of Setting interest, while a thriller might have a lot of Story.) But Language is not always a main point - it's not usually why people read the genre.
I confess to not have any clue about the genre. But I like it so far, regardless of the language being poetic or not. (Although I might try out something else more poetic later.)

Quote
(Now, if you do want to read some really lovely mystery prose, on a stylistic level, I recommend Dorothy L. Sayers. Or, I'd recommend Jo Walton's books, but the mystery series may not be available in Germany. (They're in an alternate history where Hitler was not defeated: the covers do have a swastika on them.) The books, for the curious, are _Farthing_, _Ha'Penny_ and _Half A Crown_ (which is either just out, or about to come out.) They're not at all Pagan-focused, but they do raise a number of ethical choices and issues, and a lot of questions about how we live in the world. Jo's prose is fabulous and very character-appropriate, but I'm biased: I got to read all three as a beta reader before she did revisions, along with a number of her other friends.)
Just looked at amazon.de. They are much better available than Bast and you can get also the original ones with swastikas on the covers. I'm not sure why it's not a problem. Maybe swastikas are itsself allowed on and in books (such as history books), or maybe it's not a problem because the swastika is just partially displayed.  Huh 

Quote
As far as flippant - flippant means something like being lighthearted about a serious topic, or brushing something off. I'd probably say snarky, but that's also non-standard English. Irreverant might also apply.

I think Bast is opinionated. I think she doesn't always have a lot of patience for people who are foolish or dangerous. But I'd describe her more as a classic East Coast cynic rather than flippant. Her attitude has always rather reminded me of people who work tech support - or especially in customer service relating to online abuse issues. As my manager when I was doing volunteer work with this said: "I care deeply about the individual person I'm trying to help right then - but people in general often bug me to hell." And that kind of work requires that you be able to drop your feelings about that situation, and move on when you've done your piece in it.
Snarky I understand. I like her dry humor. Maybe she's not flippant, but more kind of impatient and easily irritated by stuff that doesn't work the way it should.  Grin

Quote
(Huh. I hadn't quite thought about how this is related to how I handle public Pagan activities. I care about doing them well, but my identity and self-worth is not tied up in any single encounter, or even dozens of them.)
Hmmm....you mean she feels a bit too responsible for people like that foolish Miriam? It's not a bad story device though as long as it's not overdone. Most book-heroes have a bit of a rescue-the-world-complex. I find it cute sometimes. But for me it depends on how the author displays it. I like it if it's done with some hinting awareness about it. (For example I love the passages in Harry Potter where his friends tell him that he's acting the hero.)

Nevertheless, can't wait for the next volumes. I wish ups would hurry.
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