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Author Topic: What is the outlook on negative life forces-is there a devil?  (Read 7140 times)
Star
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« Reply #15: June 25, 2008, 10:55:58 am »

Yep, I realized that when I went on to read the next post - I had originally just hit reply from the first post, and hadn't even properly read that one.

I blame the funeral, the wake, and lack of caffeine.

Absent


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thain
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« Reply #16: June 25, 2008, 11:06:23 am »

So, I guess my question is, in these 9 worlds, is one of them a place for punishment? Or is it more of a trade off? And what exactly is a malevolent energy's purpose?

My own belief system is still building itself (as echoes of Cake's "Building a Religion" start bouncing through my mind), but it is based at least in part on tenets of Christianity that I feel to hold some value.

My concept of "hell" or other places of punishment, however, is rather nicely summed up in "What Dreams May Come," by Richard Matheson.  The concept here is that hell is not a part of the natural order, was not created by the deity or deities, but IS a very real place created by the sufferers' own minds.  As I perceive it, the concept comes down to hell (or any other realm of punishment you care to name) is held within us, just as heaven (paradise/Valhalla/Elysium/any other realm of reward) is held within us, and it is out own perceptions of ourselves that send us rising to our reward or plummeting to our "damnation." 

As someone else mentioned, the Devil as its own malicious entity is something of a new (relatively speaking) creation.  The devil of the Bible is an accuser, much like a prosecuting attorney. Of course, the Bible also has the stories of Lucifer falling from heaven, but I tend to look at the Devil as a part of God (if we're addressing this from a "God and Devil" Christian cosmology).  Walt Whitman's "Chanting the Square Deific" (http://www.bartleby.com/236/121.html) sums up my thoughts on the devil rather nicely.

That's really more food for thought than anything...I certainly believe that realms of punishment exist; I simply don't believe they exist at the behest of a deity, but rather at the behest of mankind at large.
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The world is full enough of hurts and mischance without wars to multiply them. -J.R.R. Tolkien
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« Reply #17: June 25, 2008, 11:26:42 am »

I blame the funeral, the wake, and lack of caffeine.

Absent

Oh I've done worse and without reason.  Wink

Hang in there. Best thoughts to you.
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« Reply #18: June 25, 2008, 12:13:21 pm »

My concept of "hell" or other places of punishment, however, is rather nicely summed up in "What Dreams May Come," by Richard Matheson. 

Forgot to mention this: I am NOT talking about the movie starring Robin Williams.  It was a decent movie, but it elided so many things from Matheson's gorgeous book that you really can't get even a partial image of his ideologies from reading it.
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Let yourself be open and life will be easier. A spoon of salt in a glass of water makes the water undrinkable. A spoon of salt in a lake is almost unnoticed. - Buddha

The world is full enough of hurts and mischance without wars to multiply them. -J.R.R. Tolkien
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« Reply #19: June 25, 2008, 12:15:38 pm »

My own belief system is still building itself (as echoes of Cake's "Building a Religion" start bouncing through my mind), but it is based at least in part on tenets of Christianity that I feel to hold some value.
My concept of "hell" or other places of punishment, however, is rather nicely summed up in "What Dreams May Come," by Richard Matheson.  The concept here is that hell is not a part of the natural order, was not created by the deity or deities, but IS a very real place created by the sufferers' own minds.  As I perceive it, the concept comes down to hell (or any other realm of punishment you care to name) is held within us, just as heaven (paradise/Valhalla/Elysium/any other realm of reward) is held within us, and it is out own perceptions of ourselves that send us rising to our reward or plummeting to our "damnation." 

I never threw out all dishes with the dishwater when I left Christianity either. There is a good book out: Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of The World for Crucifixion and Empire that explores and tracks Christian focuses through the ages.  The odd thing about this book for me was that it brought back the happy memories of Christianity I had as a child, before I became a teen and was told I was a sinner and damned. It was as a child during my Sunday School days, that I first felt connected to the universe and later lost it due to church dogma.

Getting back to Hell...well I am with you here, no there is no Devil and his dark underworld, but there is a place or world of "personal hell" I guess you would say. I know some people argue that there has to be right and wrong, or good or bad (all subjective) in order to have a hell, but what you are saying is more on target. There may be no true good or bad, but there is negative and positive energy. Positive energy emits (like the sun), negative energy sucks in (like a black hole), so everyone has there own personal black hole within due to guilt, regret, tramatic experiences, etc.  It is not just what negativity you have caused, but the negativitiy others have caused you as well.

I hope you can follow this next part, I know it sounds pretty "out there" and I don't know if I can explain it well anyway, but here goes; Since everything is God or One, you are not alone in this personal hell because of the interaction with others that caused it to be in the first place. Hence a "world" of suffering can exist for you and others to work through. You at times may even act as a "Devil", that is a tormentor, to one who wronged you, by putting them in your place. This is NOT the same as getting revenge by any means. More along the lines of "tough love".  All this may make no sense to anyone but me, that is how I see the concept of hell.

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« Reply #20: June 25, 2008, 01:20:38 pm »

You at times may even act as a "Devil", that is a tormentor, to one who wronged you, by putting them in your place.

Actually, that makes perfect sense.  Buddhism has a similar concept (see http://tinyurl.com/ywwz6x), and it very clearly views "hell" as something we are meant to work through for our own improvement, rather than a place we are meant to stay for all time.  Incidentally, I've posted that story here before...it's one of my favorite stories from Buddhism, because it helped me reconcile my old Christian ideas to Buddhism, which allowed me to be much more open to the Buddha's teachings.
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Let yourself be open and life will be easier. A spoon of salt in a glass of water makes the water undrinkable. A spoon of salt in a lake is almost unnoticed. - Buddha

The world is full enough of hurts and mischance without wars to multiply them. -J.R.R. Tolkien
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« Reply #21: June 25, 2008, 01:31:22 pm »

Actually, that makes perfect sense.  Buddhism has a similar concept (see http://tinyurl.com/ywwz6x), and it very clearly views "hell" as something we are meant to work through for our own improvement, rather than a place we are meant to stay for all time.  Incidentally, I've posted that story here before...it's one of my favorite stories from Buddhism, because it helped me reconcile my old Christian ideas to Buddhism, which allowed me to be much more open to the Buddha's teachings.

Always happy to know when my ramblings make sense (even a little) to others.  Thanks for sharing that wonderful story, I had not heard it before.
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RandallS
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« Reply #22: June 25, 2008, 06:02:45 pm »

I blame the funeral, the wake, and lack of caffeine.

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« Reply #23: June 25, 2008, 09:34:40 pm »

Um.., I thought the acacia to be accessed was one of the 9 worlds, not a TC member?

I thought she meant the Akashic Records or the Hindu level of Aether being Akasha.
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« Reply #24: July 09, 2008, 12:25:58 am »

I'm sorry.  I think I'm a complete idiot this morning.  I should at least have read the first post properly, even if I was going to reply without reading the rest of the thread first.

My very fuzzy brain told me you were a member of her church and were looking for her.  I will go have a coffee before I read any more threads.

Absent

You're not an idiot. I was with the church of all worlds but I don't think I understood it that well. I'd rather just stay in my feri state. You know, my sister used a spell to initiate me into her and her friend's coven, a small group of four but we don't meet ever. I pretty much practice all by myself.


I like the idea of Satan, except when people make up stuff about him. I really just think it all is based on the three folds rule and what ever you ask for. Lucky for me I practice magick and have that option to practice magick.

I did mean the Akashic Records. It's the spot where all spells are stored. I don't know why I wanted to go there.
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