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Author Topic: what if no one claims me?  (Read 3965 times)
RavynG
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« Topic Start: June 28, 2008, 02:24:37 pm »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?
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« Reply #1: June 28, 2008, 03:10:17 pm »

What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

Depends.

The first thing that springs to mind, from your comments - I can sit around all day, and say "I'd really like a lover/partner/spouse." But if I don't go out and meet people, that might not happen. And even more than that, there might be the perfect person out there, but who thinks I'm already involved with someone, or is shy, or who just really wants me to make the first move, because that's something that really intrigues them.

Some of these don't apply the same way to deities - but I do think it's perfectly fair game to spend some time with them and see what happens (just the same way we don't jump from "Hi, my name is" to marriage! Or so we hope.)

I like Judy Harrow's _Devoted to You_, which is about deity interaction - she has a process in there for exploring working with specific deities that I think is both respectful and very useful: basically, you spend a month learning about them, and a month doing some kind of ongoing offering to them (a small altar, a creative project, a daily devotion, etc.)

The group I trained with does something similar: you spend a month learning about a deity, and also doing some kind of art work/creative project/etc. focusing on that deity (which then becomes a kind of offering to them.) The combination seems to work really well for the students I've seen: it may not net people the specific deities they work most closely with, but it helps them get far closer.

If you haven't already tried something like that (and with a good range of deities: planning on 4-6 seems to be about right: I'd choose based on a combination of divination and "this seems like a likely possible fit", and I'd look at a range of pantheons), I'd suggest starting there. You might also find that you start out focusing on one deity, but that by the end of two months, you're feeling a strong pull in some related direction.

Your goal, again, is not "Immediate deity relationship" but to develop a different kind of understanding, and to have a short-term specific reason to work with them and learn about them. If you don't feel any pull at the end of that time, you move on - again, respectfully - and they've gotten something for their time and attention (the offerings you've done in the process.) It's no more 'rude' or 'demanding' than going out on dates with people to see if you like them is. Or rather, the process can be done rudely - but it doesn't make the process itself a horrible idea.

If you've already tried things like that, it might help people to offer other ideas if you talked more about what you've tried, what you've hoped for, etc. in practical terms.
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« Reply #2: June 28, 2008, 07:54:59 pm »

Depends.

The first thing that springs to mind, from your comments - I can sit around all day, and say "I'd really like a lover/partner/spouse." But if I don't go out and meet people, that might not happen. And even more than that, there might be the perfect person out there, but who thinks I'm already involved with someone, or is shy, or who just really wants me to make the first move, because that's something that really intrigues them.

Some of these don't apply the same way to deities - but I do think it's perfectly fair game to spend some time with them and see what happens (just the same way we don't jump from "Hi, my name is" to marriage! Or so we hope.)

I like Judy Harrow's _Devoted to You_, which is about deity interaction - she has a process in there for exploring working with specific deities that I think is both respectful and very useful: basically, you spend a month learning about them, and a month doing some kind of ongoing offering to them (a small altar, a creative project, a daily devotion, etc.)

The group I trained with does something similar: you spend a month learning about a deity, and also doing some kind of art work/creative project/etc. focusing on that deity (which then becomes a kind of offering to them.) The combination seems to work really well for the students I've seen: it may not net people the specific deities they work most closely with, but it helps them get far closer.

If you haven't already tried something like that (and with a good range of deities: planning on 4-6 seems to be about right: I'd choose based on a combination of divination and "this seems like a likely possible fit", and I'd look at a range of pantheons), I'd suggest starting there. You might also find that you start out focusing on one deity, but that by the end of two months, you're feeling a strong pull in some related direction.

Your goal, again, is not "Immediate deity relationship" but to develop a different kind of understanding, and to have a short-term specific reason to work with them and learn about them. If you don't feel any pull at the end of that time, you move on - again, respectfully - and they've gotten something for their time and attention (the offerings you've done in the process.) It's no more 'rude' or 'demanding' than going out on dates with people to see if you like them is. Or rather, the process can be done rudely - but it doesn't make the process itself a horrible idea.

If you've already tried things like that, it might help people to offer other ideas if you talked more about what you've tried, what you've hoped for, etc. in practical terms.

Hi I just read your post, where can I get this book? I am very interested as I am along the path of finding, for lack of a better word a diety that would fit me. To clue you in so far I have set up an alter and meditate, I write down my thoughts, prayers(spells, devotions to God and Goddess, don't know names yet) both on the computer and hand written. Having a book would be of great benefit to me, even if I may feel the need to hide it. I hope I am making sense Undecided
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« Reply #3: June 29, 2008, 03:43:25 am »

Hi I just read your post, where can I get this book?

Where do you normally buy books?

General bookstores (Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc.) should be able to order it for you if they don't have it on the shelf, and my local esoteric stores usually have it on the shelf (or, again can order it.) You can also order it online. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be in that many library catalogs, based on a quick check at worldcat.org (a combined catalog for many library systems.)
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« Reply #4: June 29, 2008, 05:18:07 am »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

I agree with Jenett. But I'd add however, that there is nothing wrong with not working with/honouring deities, don't feel you have to just because others do. Plenty of people just work with guides and land spirits etc. and find that perfectly rewarding. Equally there's nothing to stop you from honouring a whole pantheon like in reconstructionist religions.

I definately do think that effort on your part is required to find a god or goddess patron. Maybe think about cultures you're attracted to then narrow it down to one or two (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian etc.) and read about all the mythology you can get your hands on, and also how the gods were worshiped within that culture. Then when you find a god/dess you think you could have a relationship with work on introducing yourself, (make offerings in the correct form (how they were worshiped in their ancient culture), and then after a time prepare some way to introduce yourself.) They might reject you but they might not, and then again they might point you in the right direction.
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« Reply #5: June 29, 2008, 06:32:05 am »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

For one thing, atheism means not believing in Gods, and it sounds like you do.  Secondly, while I don't believe in Gods, I'll engage in devil's advocacy here.  Is there a reason you need some God to claim you?
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« Reply #6: June 29, 2008, 08:01:38 am »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you?

Most people go through life without being specifically claimed by a deity. With billions of people on the Earth deities really only have time to "claim" people they need to serve them in some way (e.g. as clergy). The fact that no deity specially claims you makes for a much easier life in many ways.
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« Reply #7: June 29, 2008, 09:36:10 am »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

I agree with Jenette as well.

However, since you threw in that you are contemplating Atheism, I have to wonder if your heart is really in finding a deity at all.  I don't know if or how you have been practicing a tradition or religion up until now, but you may be on the wrong path. You may want to explore other directions, Buddhism or Taoism for example. There is no rule that says you MUST have a deity connection. And no path has to last a life-time. What is right for you now may eventually change.

Good luck to you on your paths.
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« Reply #8: June 29, 2008, 01:00:25 pm »

So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

After years of searching and trying to make connections, I gave up on deities (or they gave up on me).  My path involves working with land spirits (trying to suss out their desires and what keeps them happy, making offerings, communing).  And I'm happy to say that my spiritual life is weird, rich, and full.

From what I've heard, being at the beck and call of a god isn't exactly a picnic anyway.  While I sometimes envy the deity-ridden, mostly I'm glad the gods passed me by.  Wink

Brina
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« Reply #9: June 29, 2008, 03:57:24 pm »

After years of searching and trying to make connections, I gave up on deities (or they gave up on me).  My path involves working with land spirits (trying to suss out their desires and what keeps them happy, making offerings, communing).  And I'm happy to say that my spiritual life is weird, rich, and full.

From what I've heard, being at the beck and call of a god isn't exactly a picnic anyway.  While I sometimes envy the deity-ridden, mostly I'm glad the gods passed me by.  Wink

Brina

thanks Brina. I am really considering giving up on it too. Others comments were thoughtful but not relevant. I have been an actively practicing witch for the past 15 years and involved in paganism for about 15 years before that, so it isn't like I didn't try or be patient. The one Goddess that I have seen alot in my wanderings has been dressed in scarlet and with long flowing auburn hair. I am thinking it might be Jack Parson's Babalon and I am currently reading Liber 49 again.
THanks everyone. Anyone have any particular visualization that works for you?
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« Reply #10: July 09, 2008, 08:37:40 am »

thanks Brina. I am really considering giving up on it too. Others comments were thoughtful but not relevant. I have been an actively practicing witch for the past 15 years and involved in paganism for about 15 years before that, so it isn't like I didn't try or be patient. The one Goddess that I have seen alot in my wanderings has been dressed in scarlet and with long flowing auburn hair. I am thinking it might be Jack Parson's Babalon and I am currently reading Liber 49 again.
THanks everyone. Anyone have any particular visualization that works for you?

Ahh, Ol' Uncle Jack's lady.  If that is true then you are in for one heckuva ride.  From my understanding the best way to reach out to her is to dedicate all of the fun things you do to her.  And do a lot of fun* things.  Also, if that works out for you, please remember this.  Not everything every deity tells you is useful or even true.  This goes double or even triple for Babalon.

Good luck,

Cassius23

*I will not elaborate on the definition of fun, but if you read anything on Jack P, you'll get a good idea.
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« Reply #11: July 09, 2008, 01:59:39 pm »

I am thinking it might be Jack Parson's Babalon and I am currently reading Liber 49 again.
THanks everyone. Anyone have any particular visualization that works for you?

I know a couple of devotees of Hers - yeah, if it's Her, it's bound to be interesting.  And ultimately rewarding although sometimes difficult.  (Which come to think about it, could be said for Others too.)

I associate Her with the number seven, roses, the color red ... She's also associated with the Sephiroth of Binah, although, ummm, good luck working with that one because it's across the Veil of the Abyss.  I tend to think of Her in Netzach too.

Read Liber Cheth by Crowley too.  Oh, and a friend of mine wrote a neat ritual for Her.  It's for three ritual officers, but it uses a lot of neat texts you probably could adapt to your own use.

And I'll second the recommendation for "fun" things.  Doesn't have to be vanilla either.
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« Reply #12: July 09, 2008, 09:06:29 pm »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

Consider yourself lucky?

I'm not knocking those who do have deep, strong relationships with deity (or deities), but I think the idea of a patron/matron has been blown up to the point where people feel that their path isn't valid if they don't have one. I think a relationship with a god can be a very positive thing, but it shouldn't be a light thing- like any relationship, the deeper it gets logically the more energy and time you will put into it. This might not be the best thing for your life on a practical level. I once had a strange series of dreams featuring the Orisha Oshun, that seemed to be calling me into her service. This was later borne out by a babalowe (though I can't vouch for his authenticity). I had the option to become a devotee and join Santeria, but I didn't. I had other obligations in my life that I needed to consider and decided that, from what I knew of it, that path would not merge harmoniously with my life and I didn't have the desire to try to force it to work out. I did my own little ritual of saying "thanks, but I can't right now" and really haven't had an Oshun dream since (going on almost 8 years now). I still have no desire whatsoever to dedicate myself in that way and it has in no way hindered me, I feel, on my path.

Since you are working with other spirits, try looking at it this way- devoting yourself exclusively to a few gods might limit your ability and your freedom to work with the diversity that you do now.
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« Reply #13: July 13, 2008, 06:39:05 am »

I do not believe in picking your own Deity. To me that is like falling in love with someone who has never even noticed you are alive. So what if no Deity ever claims you? What if you have done all the meditating and rituals and introspective journeys and still no one steps forward? I mean like after 15 years? Where do you go? Atheism? I am friends with many spirits and what could be called gods, but no one has ever been interested in my worship or offered their patronage. So what do I do?

Like others here, I see no need to be "claimed" by a deity. In fact, none of the pagans I hang out with have been claimed in this way. We just honor the earth and the nature spirits in ritual and enjoy raising energy and ending it to help those who need healing.

I used to long for a spiritual mentor. Mary Summer Rain had her No-eyes, Carlos Castaneda had his Don  Juan, and I wanted that one-on-one experience with a "live" teacher. I see your desire to be claimed by a deity to be similar to my desire to have a spiritual mentor. Then one day I realized that there were helpers in spirit available to me at any time and that I couldn't compare my path to anyone else's. This was freeing...

You're not an atheist since you are friends with spirits so why not just enjoy your friendship with them and see where it leads you?
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« Reply #14: July 15, 2008, 04:54:20 pm »

The fact that no deity specially claims you makes for a much easier life in many ways.
Oh my goodness isn't that the truth! I went for over a decade with no God until I was claimed by Odin. I love Him, but life was in some ways easier before He came into my life.
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