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Author Topic: Creation, Evolution, or a Mix?  (Read 8653 times)
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« Topic Start: July 16, 2008, 03:17:21 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

To answer my own question, I believe in evolution.  However, no matter how far back the scientists take us, there is always a "Well, what came before THAT?" for me.  The same thing goes for my belief on the way that the world, solar system, universe, etc. came into being.  No matter how far back the ideas take us, there will always be the question of what came before it.  And I will always ask that question until someone gives me direct proof that there is no need to ask it.
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« Reply #1: July 16, 2008, 03:42:13 am »


I personally believe in evolution because that's what makes the most sense to me.
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« Reply #2: July 16, 2008, 08:18:58 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

How we came to be here frankly doesn't make that much difference to me on a religious level.  We are here, and that's what I've got to deal with.

That said, I don't see evolution and creationism as mutually exclusive.  I think it's perfectly possible for evolution to have been partially or wholly guided by a divine hand.  (Or many divine hands.)  Outside of a very literal interpretation of Genesis, which seems to be a minority position in the first place, I've never quite understood why the two are always set up as opposing theories.  They address different questions, IMO; evolution addresses "how" while creationism addresses "why".

Whether that's how it happened or not, I don't know.  Smiley  But it makes sense on a theoretical level to me, at least.
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« Reply #3: July 16, 2008, 08:25:27 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

Evolution. All the evidence supports evolution and none supports the direct creation by one or more deities. However, the theory of evolution does not state that deities could not have worked through evolution to get the species they desire. While its says random mutation is all that is necessary to end up where we are today, that does not rule out changes caused by non-random means such as deities directly causing mutations. And it certainly does not rule out selective breeding programs by deities (e.g. Cupid may have been very selective when shooting his arrows).
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« Reply #4: July 16, 2008, 08:36:15 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

What if the 'Big BANG' theory was in part right, instead of a big bang it was a big 'O'.  Thus creating the start and evolution was the next step?  Like a babe in the womb thing.  What if we are still evolving? 

Just thoughts floating in my head.  I believe in evolution.  But I'm wondering HOW the big bang itself came about.  WHY did evolution happen? 

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« Reply #5: July 16, 2008, 08:43:58 am »

What if the 'Big BANG' theory was in part right, instead of a big bang it was a big 'O'.  Thus creating the start and evolution was the next step?

The big bang and evolution really aren't related. The "Big Bang" is (part) of an explanation of how the universe came into being. Evolution is a description of how life changed with time and changes to the environment on Earth. (Note that "how life on Earth came to be" is yet a third question.)

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Like a babe in the womb thing.  What if we are still evolving? 


Evolution has not stopped, but it takes many generations to see.

Quote
But I'm wondering HOW the big bang itself came about.
 

There is actually a lot of scientific work being done to try to answer that question. There isn't a generally accepted answer yet.  But the question is not considered unanswerable anymore.
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« Reply #6: July 16, 2008, 08:55:43 am »

Evolution has not stopped, but it takes many generations to see.

unless you're a virus or bacterium, lol.

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« Reply #7: July 16, 2008, 09:00:08 am »

unless you're a virus or bacterium, lol.

It still takes many generations, but each generation takes a very short period of time -- only hours in some species (perhaps even minutes for some species under ideal conditions).  So from a human POV, the change is "immediate."
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« Reply #8: July 16, 2008, 09:40:38 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

To answer my own question, I believe in evolution.  However, no matter how far back the scientists take us, there is always a "Well, what came before THAT?" for me.  The same thing goes for my belief on the way that the world, solar system, universe, etc. came into being.  No matter how far back the ideas take us, there will always be the question of what came before it.  And I will always ask that question until someone gives me direct proof that there is no need to ask it.

On one level all that is always has been and always will be.  Existence is Uncreated, but simply Is.  Within the framework of life (as opposed to existence) that we currently have, though, evolution with occasional nudges from deity is pretty much what I believe.
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« Reply #9: July 16, 2008, 10:11:19 am »

How we came to be here frankly doesn't make that much difference to me on a religious level.  We are here, and that's what I've got to deal with.

That's pretty much me. Randall will tell you my eyes glaze over when the topic comes up (and since he likes stuff like this, it occasionally rises to the top), but it's more that I'm supremely indifferent to the whole question. I'm here. I wasn't there when the whole thing started. I don't really have a vested interest in any theory at all.

That said, mark me down in the Evolution column.
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« Reply #10: July 16, 2008, 11:58:51 am »


I actually don't "believe" in evolution -- evolution IS. You don't get a choice about whether to believe in facts or not.

And I think saying I "believe" in evolution plays into creationists hands by putting it on the level of faith-based belief.
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« Reply #11: July 16, 2008, 01:18:43 pm »

Evolution. All the evidence supports evolution and none supports the direct creation by one or more deities. However, the theory of evolution does not state that deities could not have worked through evolution to get the species they desire. While its says random mutation is all that is necessary to end up where we are today, that does not rule out changes caused by non-random means such as deities directly causing mutations. And it certainly does not rule out selective breeding programs by deities (e.g. Cupid may have been very selective when shooting his arrows).
Very interesting!

I hadn't thought about it quite like that before, but I think deities may have had something to do with jump-starting life. Not necessarily gods as we know them today, but the underlying, primal Divine energy that is in everything. Like, a Big Bang of life. Norse myth explains it as the cow Audhumla licked the primal ice. After that, evolution took over (for the most part, perhaps with exceptions as Randall points out!).
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« Reply #12: July 16, 2008, 03:12:12 pm »

The big bang and evolution really aren't related. The "Big Bang" is (part) of an explanation of how the universe came into being. Evolution is a description of how life changed with time and changes to the environment on Earth. (Note that "how life on Earth came to be" is yet a third question.)
 

I think one of the favorite tactics of the fundie crowd is throwing irrelevant questions into the evolution "debate". Evolution doesn't explain why the moon isn't made of green cheese! It must be wrong!
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« Reply #13: July 16, 2008, 03:14:01 pm »

I actually don't "believe" in evolution -- evolution IS. You don't get a choice about whether to believe in facts or not.

And I think saying I "believe" in evolution plays into creationists hands by putting it on the level of faith-based belief.

Koi is wise.
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« Reply #14: July 16, 2008, 03:34:10 pm »

I actually don't "believe" in evolution -- evolution IS. You don't get a choice about whether to believe in facts or not.

And I think saying I "believe" in evolution plays into creationists hands by putting it on the level of faith-based belief.

Lol; I'm laughing because you seem to have delved into my head and pulled out the thoughts that I find so difficult to voice coherently.

My husband always tells this story of how his mother asked him one day when he was a teenager whether school had taught him about evolution yet and whether or not he believed in it (his mother is an extremely single-minded Jehovah's Witness).

 He replied: 'Of course I believe in evolution, mom. Saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe in this table right here. All things evolve, and continue to do so'. She was completely horrified, saying that Jehovah created humans and she had brought him up to know that. My husband tried to explain that evolution doesn't automatically rule out the possibility that God created us. I don't think he was very successful though, as to this day she finds it a very sore subject.

I find it very strange that a number of people seem to think that the word 'evolution' is identical to saying 'we all used to be apes'.
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