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Author Topic: Creation, Evolution, or a Mix?  (Read 8644 times)
Melamphoros
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« Reply #15: July 16, 2008, 03:44:10 pm »

I find it very strange that a number of people seem to think that the word 'evolution' is identical to saying 'we all used to be apes'.

And there are quite a few who still act like them Roll Eyes
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« Reply #16: July 16, 2008, 03:47:00 pm »

That said, I don't see evolution and creationism as mutually exclusive.  I think it's perfectly possible for evolution to have been partially or wholly guided by a divine hand.  (Or many divine hands.)  Outside of a very literal interpretation of Genesis, which seems to be a minority position in the first place, I've never quite understood why the two are always set up as opposing theories.  They address different questions, IMO; evolution addresses "how" while creationism addresses "why".
I agree completely, though you said it far better than I could have. 

Even when I was Christian, I never understood why evolution and creation were supposed to be mutually exclusive.
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« Reply #17: July 16, 2008, 03:52:01 pm »

And there are quite a few who still act like them Roll Eyes

True. Lol.
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« Reply #18: July 16, 2008, 03:52:59 pm »

And there are quite a few who still act like them Roll Eyes

And proudly proclaim it.  I can't tell you the number of hard-core creationists I've seen that say "I'm not evolved!"  

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« Reply #19: July 16, 2008, 06:37:38 pm »

...I've never quite understood why the two are always set up as opposing theories. 

The only people who do that are the ones who need the first couple of chapters of Genesis (or some similar religious myth) to be literally true for their belief in their religion to hold up. The way they see it, if the myth isn't literally true, their entire religion might be false.
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« Reply #20: July 16, 2008, 10:28:00 pm »

Koi is wise.

Koi is cranky. Smiley

Lol; I'm laughing because you seem to have delved into my head and pulled out the thoughts that I find so difficult to voice coherently.

I get lots of practice when I teach philosophy; there's always a couple of creationists in my classroom. I also have a great riff about how failure to understand the basic concepts of high school biology and chemistry means you are not actually qualified to have an opinion on the topic and we are certainly not having a debate about it in my classroom until you are capable of understanding the basic processes of science. (Pontifical you, not you you.)

Practice makes anything sound smooth. Wink
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« Reply #21: July 17, 2008, 01:07:51 pm »

I actually don't "believe" in evolution -- evolution IS. You don't get a choice about whether to believe in facts or not.

And I think saying I "believe" in evolution plays into creationists hands by putting it on the level of faith-based belief.


<applauds>  I was going to say that I believed in evolution, but you've put it so much better.
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« Reply #22: July 26, 2008, 11:08:12 am »

This idea came to me as a side note to another topic.  I just wondered what people's ideas were as to how we came to be.  Were we created by a deity (or group of them)?  Was it evolution?  Or do you believe that evolution is valid as far as it goes?

I tend to agree with the thought of Deific Evolution, but I'm also of the opinion that it really doesn't matter.  In my mind, there can not be any being worthy of being called Deity who is also so petty that he/she/it would damn me to eternal torment for accepting that evolution occurred and occurs.  To those Christians who seem to think that a literal Genesis is the only way their entire religion can be true and, therefore, insist on arguing endlessly against evolution, I actually wrote the following little diatribe:

Quote
I really don't think it matters.  I really don't think there is some cosmic force extant that is so petty it would, at the dawn of eternity, say, "OK, you folks over here, yes, all I-know-how-many billions of you, you guys are damned.  Yes, I know you lived like saints all your lives.  You certainly put my followers over here to shame in the way you lived your lives, but that doesn't matter.  See, these pathetic excuses for beings made in my image over here were smart enough to believe that I created everything.  You bozos?  You blamed it all on a big explosion!  A COSMIC FART created you?  Sorry...there's no place for you."

Honestly, how petty would someone have to be to do something like that?

Well...about as petty as most regular Sunday-morning church-goers.
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« Reply #23: July 26, 2008, 02:51:04 pm »

I tend to agree with the thought of Deific Evolution, but I'm also of the opinion that it really doesn't matter.  In my mind, there can not be any being worthy of being called Deity who is also so petty that he/she/it would damn me to eternal torment for accepting that evolution occurred and occurs.  To those Christians who seem to think that a literal Genesis is the only way their entire religion can be true and, therefore, insist on arguing endlessly against evolution, I actually wrote the following little diatribe:


That was great.  Although, with pure creationists I tend to use the argument of "If everything was simply created, how do you explain all of the evidence to the contrary?  Did God simply decide to mislead us?  Lie to us?  What exactly is going on here?  We are supposedly created in the image ofGod, yet we are supposed to have more self control than he apparently does, and not lie?  Or is it possible that the creation story was just a metaphor, and God actually wants us to find out the truth for ourselves?"

This whole argument came to me when I was about eleven or  twelve, and started having my doubts as to the idea of creation, I still wasn't sure about evolution at the time but couldn't believe that it was completely false (I have always had that, "Well, what came before..." question at the back of my head whenever dealing with evolution). 

I have over the years come to the conclusion that it is evolution (there is no doubt) guided by a divine hand/hands (this is my own conjecture).  As for all of the intricate details of this idea, I still have no clue.
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« Reply #24: July 26, 2008, 03:05:45 pm »



I just remembered  that one of the best rebuttals to the pure evolutionists is this Doonesbury cartoon:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/images/1218doonesbury_lg.gif

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« Reply #25: July 26, 2008, 03:21:21 pm »

I just remembered  that one of the best rebuttals to the pure evolutionists is this Doonesbury cartoon:

That's actually a nice little rebuttal to purists on EITHER side of the fence...I'm saving this one to my favorites Grin
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« Reply #26: July 26, 2008, 04:19:16 pm »

That's actually a nice little rebuttal to purists on EITHER side of the fence...I'm saving this one to my favorites Grin

I'm not really sure its a rebuttal to the pure evolutionists, since the drugs are not evolved, just the bug.  THey are intelligently designed, by humans.  SO no promises on the side effects.
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« Reply #27: July 29, 2008, 11:45:59 am »

I actually don't "believe" in evolution -- evolution IS. You don't get a choice about whether to believe in facts or not.

And I think saying I "believe" in evolution plays into creationists hands by putting it on the level of faith-based belief.

You've hit on one of my peeves, too. I hate the "believe in" terminology to indicate that you agree with something.

It's right up there with "evolution is just a theory" when spoken by people who have no understanding of what a scientific theory entails.

Sasha
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