Price of oil - good and bad prices

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[sailor_tech]

Considering that most of the cities in this area have 100,000+ people, I now understand fully how difficult it might be from someone from an area the size of yours.

Richmond is a bit tougher then the Hampton Roads area, but believe me when I say that the D.C. area is even worse

Or try New York City.  I had an event in Manhatten for Friday night and Saturday night. I parked in Dumont, NJ and took the bus in rather than try and park in the city.

[Dragondaughter]

Yeah, the Downtown area is a bit rough (and I'm not just talking about parking).

Yeah, we went around some of the blocks a couple times, and decided we really DIDN'T need to see that part of the town. 

[Dragondaughter]

Or try New York City.  I had an event in Manhatten for Friday night and Saturday night. I parked in Dumont, NJ and took the bus in rather than try and park in the city.

Oh, I have no desire to go to NYC or D.C.  I highly doubt that I'll be on your side of the country again, even though I did see some beautiful places.

[LyricFox]

Wow.  I was raised outside of Boston, MA and find Virginia Beach to be anything but a city.  Even Norfolk and Newport News aren't really cities.  They are cities only in that they have incorporated themselves as cities (as opposed to incorporation as a town). 

I think I would like Boston. Randall and I keep saying we really do live in the wrong part of the country for a whole lot of reasons.

[RandallS]

I think I would like Boston.

I've been there once (long ago when relatives lived there) and liked what I saw of it. Of course, I did not see as much as I could have because I spend my weekend at Boskone.

[LyricFox]

I've been there once (long ago when relatives lived there) and liked what I saw of it. Of course, I did not see as much as I could have because I spend my weekend at Boskone.

Or Chicago. That would work, too.

Hell, I've been trying to get out of Texas for 15 years and I've never made it. I can dream...

[ChristopherBlackwell]

Frankly I don't think the price of oil is ever going to come down much, may a bit in the fall as driving decreases. But with China rapidly increasing its need for oil and most of the big oil fields having passed their peak, I think we are going to see oil continue to rise. I expect $5 a gallon by next summer, $6 or even $7 a gallon the next year and even $10 per gallon n the next three to four years.

At this stage of the game nothing we will or can do is going to slow it down, and that includes if we drill every area we have. Oil is beginning to run out, but the need is still going to increase. The oil companies will make out like bandits. They own our government in Congress and in the administration. The foxes are in charge of the hen house. Don't expect any encouragement from the Government for alternate energy and expect to see continued handouts to the oil, coal and nuclear energy groups.

Christopher

This is a spin off of the election thread, specifically starting with this post, although you might want to look at the 5 or so posts before it.

http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=6476.60;p=61

What is a good price for oil? 

To low, and we shift back to big SUVs and make the shock of future expensive oil that much greater. We also won't drill for new oil, nor exploit marginal wells (such as in Oklahoma).

To expensive to quickly, and we can't adapt our economy or life style. Lots of people get crunched between gas to get to work (since previous low prices prevented mass transit from being built and forced upon communities) and eating.

Also, what do you see our landscape or lifestyle looking like in 20 years if oil moderates it's increase, but remains expensive?

[Melamphoros]

Frankly I don't think the price of oil is ever going to come down much, may a bit in the fall as driving decreases. But with China rapidly increasing its need for oil and most of the big oil fields having passed their peak, I think we are going to see oil continue to rise. I expect $5 a gallon by next summer, $6 or even $7 a gallon the next year and even $10 per gallon n the next three to four years.

At this stage of the game nothing we will or can do is going to slow it down, and that includes if we drill every area we have. Oil is beginning to run out, but the need is still going to increase. The oil companies will make out like bandits. They own our government in Congress and in the administration. The foxes are in charge of the hen house. Don't expect any encouragement from the Government for alternate energy and expect to see continued handouts to the oil, coal and nuclear energy groups.

Now that's a bleak and pessimistic view of things, I wonder if we share the same mind

[ChristopherBlackwell]

Melamphoros,

I would love to be proven wrong, but I have been watching the price rise since 1972. Despite all the screaming nothing got done and the moment prices dropped plenty of people went back to gas guzzlers. Not just SUVS but motor homes and motor coaches. So the oil companies learned the American people will put up with anything and never do anything.

Meanwhile we can see what our own American car companies have had waiting in the background, hybrid SUV with 35 MPH. I have been watching the progress of the Japanese fuel cell cars. It only costs $22 to fill your tank and they get 240 miles per tankful. Mind you that Japan has manufactured these vehicles and had them on the road since the late 90s. And oh how they have changes and improved. meanwhile in Los Angeles the Shell oil company has tarted putting hydrogen pumps in their larger gas stations.

Al this while we hear in the United States that we might have to wait until 2010 before we will see major shift to Hydrogen fuel Cell cars. Well they are here and they work. Right now they can only be leased and are out of my price range. but I bet in the next five years they are going to be priced right for a great many people, especially with the cost of oil still going up most likely.

Don't expect the American government to do anything before the American people are willing to hit the streets. But only not during prime time, after all no one will want to miss their favorite shows.

Christopher

n

Now that's a bleak and pessimistic view of things, I wonder if we share the same mind

[sailor_tech]

Melamphoros,

I would love to be proven wrong, but I have been watching the price rise since 1972. Despite all the screaming nothing got done and the moment prices dropped plenty of people went back to gas guzzlers. Not just SUVS but motor homes and motor coaches. So the oil companies learned the American people will put up with anything and never do anything.

Meanwhile we can see what our own American car companies have had waiting in the background, hybrid SUV with 35 MPH. I have been watching the progress of the Japanese fuel cell cars. It only costs $22 to fill your tank and they get 240 miles per tankful. Mind you that Japan has manufactured these vehicles and had them on the road since the late 90s. And oh how they have changes and improved. meanwhile in Los Angeles the Shell oil company has tarted putting hydrogen pumps in their larger gas stations.

Al this while we hear in the United States that we might have to wait until 2010 before we will see major shift to Hydrogen fuel Cell cars. Well they are here and they work. Right now they can only be leased and are out of my price range. but I bet in the next five years they are going to be priced right for a great many people, especially with the cost of oil still going up most likely.

Don't expect the American government to do anything before the American people are willing to hit the streets. But only not during prime time, after all no one will want to miss their favorite shows.

Christopher

n

Do you have a source for this info on fuel cell cars?

Is the price of $22 to fill the tank heavily subsidized? Seems awfully cheap, even if you use nukes to make the energy needed to convert water to O2 and H.  I can't find a price fo H production costs though.

One of the biggest hold backs for any alternate fuel is infrastructure.  People won't buy a car that they can't readily re-fuel; companies generally won't build fuel stations unless there will be uses for it.  That's one reason that CNG / LPG has been effectively limited to fleet vehicles for years. 

Wired magazine http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/hydrogen-cars-a.html quotes prices of $10 billion to $500 billion to build the infrastructure for fuel cell cars.

[Sperran]

However, Norfolk is about to start work on a light rail system that would take up a few lanes of one of its most busy roads adding to the current traffic nightmare.

I'm sorry they are going about it the wrong way, but living in a city that has a light rail system, I can tell you that the train is FANTASTIC.  It runs on time because it doesn't deal with the traffic issues that buses have; it is quick, clean, and efficient.  I only wish it ran to more places.  If we are going to an event close to one of the stops (e.g. a Cardinals game) we always take the train.

Sperran

[Fabricius]

Oil price is not too high in my mind.
I have as car a Nissan micra, I use 4.3 liters of diesel for running 100km.
I use the car only if it is raining too much, otherwise I take the bicycle to drive to work, are 5 km in the morning, and 5 km in the afternoon, fair enough!

High oil prices mean also that shipping low value goods (such as textiles, screws...) from china to europe will become more and more expensive, and infact many german companies are closing down their factories in china and opening them again in germany...

[sailor_tech]

Oil price is not too high in my mind.
I have as car a Nissan micra, I use 4.3 liters of diesel for running 100km.
I use the car only if it is raining too much, otherwise I take the bicycle to drive to work, are 5 km in the morning, and 5 km in the afternoon, fair enough!

High oil prices mean also that shipping low value goods (such as textiles, screws...) from china to europe will become more and more expensive, and infact many german companies are closing down their factories in china and opening them again in germany...

Compared to most American's, your commute is rediculasly short.

The US is seeing a similar return of low value production to the US.  Good news for the advanced economies of the US, Europe, etc; not so good that the wages will likely be low; or the jobs will be highly automated and the few jobs will be well paid (similar to what has been going on with men's socks for years).

[Fabricius]

Compared to most American's, your commute is rediculasly short.

The US is seeing a similar return of low value production to the US.  Good news for the advanced economies of the US, Europe, etc; not so good that the wages will likely be low; or the jobs will be highly automated and the few jobs will be well paid (similar to what has been going on with men's socks for years).

I know my commute is short compared to US standards (my brother in love comes from New York...), but I decided to find a flat near my job

Here in Germany the automation is unbeliavably high, so a handful of workers can have a humongous output in therms of productivity...
It is bad for those people with lower education, but in this moment industries are fighting to enroll empoyes with university graduation or even PhDs...

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