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Author Topic: evolution vs. creation  (Read 12030 times)
Spectacular Views
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« Reply #30: August 20, 2008, 03:10:20 pm »

Did you get much social exposure outside groups with those beliefs?

None whatsoever.  All of my friends and I mean all of them were Christian.  Most of their parent's were heavily involved with the church, and by church I mean super fundie ones.  My parent's are actually involved with a church here, and it's a scary one.  By scary I mean how manipulative and fundie they are.  I'm honestly glad I got out of it, it borders on being a cult.  And I mean a bad one. 

It's really sad to see fundies distort and pervert the message of Christ.  I have no problems with the original teachings of Christ, I have a problem with all of the crap that got added to it by people.  I hate seeing any form of deity, whether it be Hades, Isis, Whomever, have their message and or stories, characteristics, whatever, distorted and used for greedy and controlling purposes.

Ahh, sorry for the rant.

--Edited:  I need to not get so eager and spell check better--
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 03:14:18 pm by Spectacular Views » Logged

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« Reply #31: August 20, 2008, 03:14:31 pm »

None whatsoever.  All of my friends and I mean all of them were Christian.  Most of their parent's were heavily involved with the church, and by church I mean super fundie ones.  My parent's are actually involved with a church here, and it's a scary one.  By scary I mean how manipulative and fundie they are.  I'm honestly glad I got out of it, it borders on being a cult.  And I mean a bad one. 

You sound relatively normal, so I don't think your social skills were too warped by the experience.  Cheesy
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« Reply #32: August 21, 2008, 12:51:41 am »

You sound relatively normal, so I don't think your social skills were too warped by the experience.  Cheesy

haha I think the key word there is: relatively.   Cheesy
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« Reply #33: August 21, 2008, 02:09:36 am »

haha I think the key word there is: relatively.   Cheesy

Meh, I'm beginning to believe all of us are warped in one way or another.  (All of humanity, not just those here on TC, although...)
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« Reply #34: August 27, 2008, 05:01:18 am »

I believe in evolution.
I also work in the field of dirdcted evolution of proteins (basically we prepare "evolved" enzymes mutating the aminoacids of a "wild" protein").
Maybe my point of view is biased by the fact that I am a scientist, but I firmly convinced by the evolutuionary theory.
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« Reply #35: August 27, 2008, 06:56:49 am »

which one do you believe in?  i find this a tough question, because what if evolution was all part of god/godess's plan?  personally, that is what i think.
I believe in evolution. Evolutionary biology documents the fact that evolution occurs, and also develops and tests theories that explain its causes.

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« Reply #36: August 28, 2008, 06:46:35 pm »

Evolution is pretty much an accepted notion . Though I don't see why evolution should falsify religions . All it does it counter some old written books of their times .
you said it sis(or bro).  i hate it when people insist that evolution is wrong because they don't want to have to change some of their belifes.
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« Reply #37: August 29, 2008, 02:56:37 am »

you said it sis(or bro).  i hate it when people insist that evolution is wrong because they don't want to have to change some of their belifes.

I think someone else said it best in another topic.  You can't believe in evolution, or disbelieve it.  It simply is.  I agree with that.  However, I'm also the one who, no matter how far you trace things back I'll ask "and what came before that...", that is my only problem with a purely evolution idea for how life came into being.  There is always something that came before, something cannot come from nothing, even when you get down to basic elements, then down to atoms, then to electrons and the like, and then...

Which is why I do believe in some form of creation.  Something(s) had to have been created, before it/they could combine/evolve into the things we see now, including lifeforms.    And things will continue combining/evolving from now until the end of the universe. 

I also happen not to believe in coincidence, so I have a bias toward the idea of divine intervention in evolution.  Sort of a divine genetic experiment, and we are the guinea pigs.
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« Reply #38: August 29, 2008, 01:21:17 pm »


I also happen not to believe in coincidence, so I have a bias toward the idea of divine intervention in evolution.  Sort of a divine genetic experiment, and we are the guinea pigs.

I dunno.  I'd say that the universe is so damn big, even if the odds against life are high, it's not that unusual that it happened somewhere.
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« Reply #39: August 29, 2008, 04:06:20 pm »

which one do you believe in?  i find this a tough question, because what if evolution was all part of god/godess's plan?  personally, that is what i think.

Evolution is a fact, so yes, I accept it. I have no problem with sharing a common ancestor with the gorillas, or chimpanzees, whichever is our closest relative.  I also see no reason why I should consider it troubling, or an insult, as the latter is an impression I get from some who deny evolution is a fact.

As for it being part of a greater being's plan, I tend to take the view that the Earth was possibly around before the gods happened by and said, "Oh, what's this?  Hmm, nice little planet here...."  I'm also open to the idea that I'm horribly mistaken, and some being or form of consciousness created the world and the universe we live in.  Since no one really knows what was going on before the Big Bang, either explanation is possible in my view. I just happen to lean towards the less creator-driven one most of the time.
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« Reply #40: August 30, 2008, 10:43:28 pm »

I think someone else said it best in another topic.  You can't believe in evolution, or disbelieve it.  It simply is.  I agree with that.  However, I'm also the one who, no matter how far you trace things back I'll ask "and what came before that...", that is my only problem with a purely evolution idea for how life came into being.  There is always something that came before, something cannot come from nothing, even when you get down to basic elements, then down to atoms, then to electrons and the like, and then...

I have the same question.  I believe in evolution as fact but how did all the elements for the big bang get there?  Something or someone had to put those elements in to place, right?  The question of where those beings or whatever came from arises.

It seems like the more answers we find the more questions that arise. 
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« Reply #41: August 30, 2008, 10:52:57 pm »

I believe in evolution as fact but how did all the elements for the big bang get there? 

In the Incarnations of Immortality series (Specifically Bearing an Hourglass, Piers Anthony posits the idea that the universe is cyclical in nature.  Basically, the idea is that if you go far enough forward in time, the entire universe will collapse and explode again, starting the entire cycle over.

It stilldoesn't explain what was there to begin with...instead it just says that what was there was ALWAYS there.  Whether the idea has any scientific merit whatsoever, it's the kind of idea I tend to like Smiley
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« Reply #42: August 31, 2008, 02:18:34 am »

I have the same question.  I believe in evolution as fact but how did all the elements for the big bang get there?  Something or someone had to put those elements in to place, right?  The question of where those beings or whatever came from arises.

Actually plenty of people are still asking those questions and researching.  That the questions arent asked that often in lay circles beyond speculation isn't really indicative of anything.
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« Reply #43: August 31, 2008, 08:37:36 am »

I have the same question.  I believe in evolution as fact but how did all the elements for the big bang get there? 

The "big bang" has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution. The Theory of Evolution explains how lifeforms change with time, not how the universe came to be.
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« Reply #44: September 04, 2008, 10:08:03 am »

I think many of "homeschooled children have social problems" come from some of the fundie parents who homeschool to prevent their children from being exposed to ideas that differ from theirs. Many times, such children don't get to associate much with children outside their parent's church.  People who homeschool because they want to give their children a better education generally don't limit their children's social exposure like that.

This is a very accurate overall assessment, from my experience at least! I got kicked out of high school in 9th grade, and my fundie parents homeschooled me with a ferocious agenda to make me a good little christian girl. Academically, I suffered in every area in which I did not have an interest; so the only subjects I excelled in were those in which I already had significant talent. Socially, I might as well have been in prison.

I did not want to homeschool my children, and resisted pressure from their father and our fundie friends for a while. I gave in when my son was held back to repeat first grade because he could not read, and my daughter was flunking math without a word sent us from her teacher.

The public school they went to was not only inept academically, but they misplaced children at the wrong bus stops (Kindergarteners, mind you!) and were very Nazi-like about parents in the school. I homeschooled my kids for five years, and this year they've all gone back to the public school system (different district, thankfully).

My daughter is still not very good at math, but she's at an appropriate level for her grade. My son's reading took off in the first year of homeschool, and the kid can't take his nose out of books except for soccer or karate, or possibly computer games. All three of my kids are far ahead of the pack in reading/language arts; largely due to the two years of Greek and Latin roots I made them take. They are very logical in their thought processes, partly using the skills they learned in critical thinking last year (although when I was teaching it, I thought we would all just end up in a rubber room, they were so completely off-the-wall in their arguments sometimes!).

Socially, my daughter is more mature even than I am in some ways! She has already figured out the game of high school social interaction to an amazing extent, and is fitting right in because of the fact that she's secure enough in herself not to try too hard. She adores her math teacher for telling the class to shut the hell up, not to be dumbshits, and warning them about the placement of his foot in their anatomy if they commit certain infractions of his rules. She joined the FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America!), to my great admiration.

My son is enjoying himself, and is not reverting to his early class-clown persona (yet?). My littlest one is thrilled to death with everything, and is still ahead of his class despite the fact that he's actually a grade ahead of where he should be for his age.

So! All in all, I've seen both sides of homeschool up close and personal; it can be a horror, or a real asset. It all depends on the individuals (both children and parents) involved, I think. I give my kids a lot of credit, and am very proud of how adept they're proving to be.

(sorry, I know this isn't technically part of the evolution/creation topic, but homeschool appears to be a sub-topic here!)
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