Special Topic: Why We're Touchy About Defining Paganism

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[EverFool]

Of course the Pope said no, so Henry broke off and made is own chuch, and outlawed (or pretty much close to) Cathlocism. And the rest is history.

In all fairness, one of the main reasons the pope said no was that a relative of Catherine of Aragon had captured Rome/the Vatican (my memory is a little fuzzy), and by extension owned the Pope.  The Pope had often given annullments etc to other rulers of Europe (the rules were often bent for nobles etc, because they had to make marriage alliances, etc.).  Henry VIII just had the misfortune of seeking an anullment at a time when the Pope couldn't give it to him.

[Nyktipolos]

In all fairness, one of the main reasons the pope said no was that a relative of Catherine of Aragon had captured Rome/the Vatican (my memory is a little fuzzy), and by extension owned the Pope.  The Pope had often given annullments etc to other rulers of Europe (the rules were often bent for nobles etc, because they had to make marriage alliances, etc.).  Henry VIII just had the misfortune of seeking an anullment at a time when the Pope couldn't give it to him.

I noted that above, that the Pope was related to Catherine in some way. I may have gotten it wrong, but I knew why he didn't.

I never knew he gave annulments to other leaders, though. Thank you.

[EverFool]

I noted that above, that the Pope was related to Catherine in some way. I may have gotten it wrong, but I knew why he didn't.

I never knew he gave annulments to other leaders, though. Thank you.

Nobles and leaders tended to get an easier time in some respects.  For example, one wasn't meant to marry anyone descended from the same grandparent.  This was a problem for some nobles, as marrying cousins was fairly common.  So they got dispensation quite often.

If I recall correctly, Henry would have had to get dispensation to marry Catherine in the first place.  So it's not that odd that Henry expected to get a dispensation.  Had the situation been different, he probably would have got it.

[Thorn]

If I recall correctly, Henry would have had to get dispensation to marry Catherine in the first place.

Yes, he had to get a dispensaton because Catherine was his brother's wife.  He basically argued that Arthur had died before the marriage was consumated; then when he wanted the divorce completely reversed the arguement.

[FunkyDemon]

"A Pagan religion is a religion that is not Jewish, Christian, or Islamic and self-identifies as Pagan."

This pretty much matches the definition I have always used.  I don't need to try and come up with some definition of what a pagan is because they are defined by what they are not.  Nothing wrong with that.  When I say I am a pagan, I'm just telling you I am not Abrahamic.  And pretty much everyone will agree with at least that much.  If you happen to have little addendums to your definition, that is not my fault.  If I want to be more descriptive I will use a more descriptive word.

Regarding the Christian Pagans, it would be an oxymoron with this definition, which is probably why so many people scratch their heads when they hear it.  They would have to explain what they mean by pagan for it to make sense, in which case you could probably come up with a better term.  However for myself that would probably be 'Christian' since I use the equally broad definition for Christianity of worshipping or deriving your religion from Christ.  This allows me to cover all those that call themselves Christian, even if other Christians disagree.  I can't think of how they could define Christian Pagan that wouldn't just be another sect of Christianity.

Also regarding the 'rebellion' definition.  Since there is no dominant religion in my area, and I moved from atheism to paganism, you could say I am conforming.

Sorry about the multiple replies without quoting each one, but they are really in relation to many posts for single answers.

[Star]

I thought I'd bump this up, because it seems like I've been linking to it for a lot of people lately.  We've had a lot of new members join since the thread last had activity, and this is something that it's very important to understand about this forum and its history and particular culture.  Click the link on the quote above to go to the relevant post.  (It's kinda long, and things outside the quote boxes are always easier to read than things inside them, so I thought it would be better not to just leave the whole thing in.)

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