Historic Moment

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[LyricFox]

Whether you agree with his ideology or not. Whether you support the platform or not. Whether you'll vote for him or not. None of that really matters right now. Tonight was a very, very historic moment in American history. The nomination of Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee has happened, and we have our first African American nominee for president from a major political party.

Obama claims historic presidential nomination
Democrats make Illinois senator first African-American nominee

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26428950/

[sailor_tech]

Whether you agree with his ideology or not. Whether you support the platform or not. Whether you'll vote for him or not. None of that really matters right now. Tonight was a very, very historic moment in American history. The nomination of Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee has happened, and we have our first African American nominee for president from a major political party.

Obama claims historic presidential nomination
Democrats make Illinois senator first African-American nominee

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26428950/

I'll have to look for a decent on-line source, but ...

Obama isn't much African-American.  He's 1/8th or at most 1/4 African. Obviously 1/2 Caucasian.  Then 1/4 or 3/8ths Arab.

Abraham Lincoln apparently had more African blood than Obama.

Then I think, but I'd have to find the cite again, that Andrew Jackson had a lot of African blood, to point that his brother was sold into slavery.

[RandallS]

Obama isn't much African-American. 

Every African-American I know (or know of) considers him Africian-American. White bigots consider him the an uppity N-word. I really think that's more than enough to consider him an Africian-American.

[Star]

Every African-American I know (or know of) considers him Africian-American. White bigots consider him the an uppity N-word. I really think that's more than enough to consider him an Africian-American.

I'd tend to agree...  I mean, as I see it, the big news is not that someone with African blood got nominated, but that someone who is percieved by the public as African-American was nominated.  Lincoln and Jackson, to the best of my knowledge, would have been percieved as Caucasian and thus are a bit of a different case.  It's about prejudice and stereotypes based on looks and perception being overcome, not about the actual genetic composition of the candidate.

[LyricFox]

I'll have to look for a decent on-line source, but ...

Obama isn't much African-American.  He's 1/8th or at most 1/4 African. Obviously 1/2 Caucasian.  Then 1/4 or 3/8ths Arab.

What Randall said, Peter. He self-identifies as African American and he has the physical characteristics. So while someone can nitpick a pedigree and more power to them, if the person they're talking about says "I'm African American." chances are real good I'm going to head that direction rather than the other.

[mandrina]

I'll have to look for a decent on-line source, but ...

Obama isn't much African-American.  He's 1/8th or at most 1/4 African. Obviously 1/2 Caucasian.  Then 1/4 or 3/8ths Arab.

Abraham Lincoln apparently had more African blood than Obama.

Then I think, but I'd have to find the cite again, that Andrew Jackson had a lot of African blood, to point that his brother was sold into slavery.

The suggestion is that his father was not the man reported to be his father, because his 'father' died a year before he was born.  According to the Hermitage and its geneology, his father died 15 days before he was born.  (MArch first 1767 vs March 15 1767).  If his older brother Hugh was sold into slavery, he was released at some point before the revolutionary war so he could die at the battle of Stono Ferry.  Andrew Jackson may not have had a great childhood, but he certainly wasn't raised as black.  Just like all the others mentioned, none were raised as black.  But apparently the evidence on Jackson is quite iffy, if not downright non existent. 

Jefferson is more likely the white father of illegitimate black children.  He destroyed his mother's stuff, not his dad's and his dad was the one that would need to be hidden, since he was the one that was supposedly a 'mulatto'.

Barack Obama's father is quite dark, he pretty much looks like a very dark black african.  All the names on the genoelogy I found (most of them were from his mother's family, were all very african vs arab.  Besides, there are alot of black african muslims.  That's part of what is happening in Dafur. Being Muslim doesn't make one arab.)

[Melamphoros]

Obama claims historic presidential nomination
Democrats make Illinois senator first African-American nominee

Another interesting piece of info: today is the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech.

[RandallS]

Another interesting piece of info: today is the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech.

I'll be surprised if Obama doesn't make reference to this in his acceptance speech tonight.

[Melamphoros]

Jefferson is more likely the white father of illegitimate black children.  He destroyed his mother's stuff, not his dad's and his dad was the one that would need to be hidden, since he was the one that was supposedly a 'mulatto'.

It is said that Sally Hemings (the woman thought to be Jefferson's slave mistress) was only 1/4 black.  In fact, some think that she was the half-sister of Martha Wayles Skelton Jefferson (Thomas Jefferson's wife).  It is also said that her children passed for white and able to blend into white society well after they escaped/were set free.

[mandrina]

It is said that Sally Hemings (the woman thought to be Jefferson's slave mistress) was only 1/4 black.  In fact, some think that she was the half-sister of Martha Wayles Skelton Jefferson (Thomas Jefferson's wife).  It is also said that her children passed for white and able to blend into white society well after they escaped/were set free.

And one could be a three quarters (or more white) black slave in the US by being the child, grandchild and greatgrandchild of 'white masters' on an enslaved girl:   Great grandma came over on a slave ship, greatgranpa was her white owner, grandma was the resulting mixed slave, grandpa was the white overseer, enslaved mom was sold to dad, who was her white owner, resulting slave child is more that three quarters white, and yet still a black slave and treated as black.

Obama get's his light skin from his mom.

[mandrina]

What Randall said, Peter. He self-identifies as African American and he has the physical characteristics. So while someone can nitpick a pedigree and more power to them, if the person they're talking about says "I'm African American." chances are real good I'm going to head that direction rather than the other.

ANother comment to this, had any of the above mentioned 'possibly-more-black-than-Obama' presidents actually been raised as/accepted as black by the people around them, we would not be having this conversation because they would never have been president in the first place.  They would have been black men, and that really was the point of any allegations made at the time of the elections.  Most people didn't believe them.  If they had, the men would not have been elected, and probably the nominations would have been withdrawn, so they wouldn't even have been in consideration for the presidency.  That is the truly historic nomination, that a man accepted by everyone around him as black is being nominated for president by one of the two major parties.  And that the other possible nominee was a woman.

[WarHorse]

Democrats make Illinois senator first African-American nominee

I was listening to part of his speech a little while ago.  Politely damning of the Republicans, and quite rousing.  At one point, he shouted "Enough!" and the crowd went berserk.

Now I'm wondering how Jack will rebut that.

[RandallS]

I'll be surprised if Obama doesn't make reference to this in his acceptance speech tonight.

And he did.

[Aetius]

I'll have to look for a decent on-line source, but ...

Obama isn't much African-American.  He's 1/8th or at most 1/4 African. Obviously 1/2 Caucasian.  Then 1/4 or 3/8ths Arab.

Abraham Lincoln apparently had more African blood than Obama.

Then I think, but I'd have to find the cite again, that Andrew Jackson had a lot of African blood, to point that his brother was sold into slavery.

I would be hesitant to assume that 'African = Black'. There's actually a lot of racial diversity in Africa.

Coptic Christians don't consider themselves either Black or Arab. Arabs themselves dominate much of North Africa. Still plenty of White folks living in the nation of South Africa.

Any member of one of these groups could emigrate to the USA, and legitimately call themselves 'African-American'.

Personally, I blame Jesse Jackson for popularizing the term among Black Americans back in the 1980s. It was meant to 'celebrate diversity', but actually gives short shrift to Africa's vast diversity.

It's just so commonly understood nowadays, that even I use it.

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