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Author Topic: Fiction, Projection, or Reality?  (Read 4510 times)
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Journeyman
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« Topic Start: September 03, 2008, 12:46:53 am »

Fiction, Projection, or Reality?

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

Fiction: It is self-delusion to think that magic accomplishes anything.  Any "results" are just coincidence and have nothing to do with your actions.

Projection: You took real world action as well as performing magic.  The desired results are a consequence of your actions in the world.  Connecting these results to your magical actions is simply a method of reinforcing one's preferred (magical/religious) reality tunnel.

Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world.

Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?
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« Reply #1: September 03, 2008, 05:50:18 pm »

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

"Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world." While I'll be the first to admit that I have no scientific evidence that it does, it certainly appears to affect the world to me. Same with prayer.

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Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?

Certain types of magic do seem more effective than others for some tasks (and/or for some people).
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« Reply #2: September 03, 2008, 09:10:51 pm »

Fiction, Projection, or Reality?

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

Fiction: It is self-delusion to think that magic accomplishes anything.  Any "results" are just coincidence and have nothing to do with your actions.

Projection: You took real world action as well as performing magic.  The desired results are a consequence of your actions in the world.  Connecting these results to your magical actions is simply a method of reinforcing one's preferred (magical/religious) reality tunnel.

Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world.

Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?


Reality: The magic I do really affects the world. 

I wouldn't continue to do it if I didn't think it was working.  I don't understand why anyone would. 

As for the success of various techniques, I think it depends more on the focus and intent of the practitioner than the technique itself.  However, I think some practices create stronger focus and make slipping into the right frame of mind easier.  Thus they seem to be more effective for a greater number of persons. 
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« Reply #3: September 03, 2008, 09:40:42 pm »


When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?


All three at once. I tend to argue with myself (-ves?) about that. Then I scold myself for overthinking things because, hey, who cares what happened, I got what I wanted!  Smiley

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Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?

Ummm. I think I have a talent for some types more than others, so I'd be more effective using them. But I don't think that different types are inherently more or less effective. Unless they include practical action (I once came across this hilarious 'spell' to get rid of an unwanted neighbour. It went along the lines of throwing an egg at their house and shouting for them to get on out already!  Cheesy )
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« Reply #4: September 04, 2008, 03:21:55 am »

Fiction, Projection, or Reality?

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

Fiction: It is self-delusion to think that magic accomplishes anything.  Any "results" are just coincidence and have nothing to do with your actions.

Projection: You took real world action as well as performing magic.  The desired results are a consequence of your actions in the world.  Connecting these results to your magical actions is simply a method of reinforcing one's preferred (magical/religious) reality tunnel.

Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world.

Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?


Up in the air on this one.  It's a toss up between projection and reality.  I really don't know, and I really don't care what exactly has made the things happen, the fact that they have happened is enough for me.  If I cast a spell or say a prayer asking that my family not come to harm, if they don't then I could say that the spell worked.  But how do I know that they would have if I had not cast the spell or said the prayer?  I don't.  Then again, what if, because I have that idea enforced in my head, I subconsciously alter certain things I am doing so that I accomplish that effect mundanely, without realizing it.

Meh, it's all the same thing to me.  Really I see magic more as a way to enforce in one's own mind the objectives one wishes to accomplish.  I don't see it as an independent force, or as anything unnatural, or what have you.  It's a means to an end, and if that end comes about, then I'm not really too worried about how it happened.
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« Reply #5: September 05, 2008, 02:06:48 pm »

Fiction, Projection, or Reality?

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

Fiction: It is self-delusion to think that magic accomplishes anything.  Any "results" are just coincidence and have nothing to do with your actions.

Projection: You took real world action as well as performing magic.  The desired results are a consequence of your actions in the world.  Connecting these results to your magical actions is simply a method of reinforcing one's preferred (magical/religious) reality tunnel.

Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world.

Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?

Reality, yes, but sometimes the spell itself may not work and it was just projection, (I don't believe in fiction), but I'd never know.  I have perfect trust, so when I see a miracle let's say, how will I see it's a coincidence?  Unless someone else tells me it is and even then, they don't know I did a spell, so it would never be pointed out. 

Besides, magick encompasses more than just our individual ability to perform it, all things in the universe move energy all the time whether conscious or unconscious.  Who's to say other beings are not also moving energies in my direction to accomplish their own goals at the same time.  If I need money to pay for X, owner of X needs money to pay for Y, I cast a spell to get X and it fails, but they cast a spell for Y and it succeeds, I still get money to pay for X so that they have money to pay for Y.  There's a little bit of serendipity, and synchronicity, and sympathy all together.

Techniques?  They don't really change my answer, but the technique effects the value of the outcome.  I wouldn't try to erase ink with a pencil eraser, nor would I try to make it rain with an athame spell.  I use a lot of Sympathetic magick.  Create similarities or align energies in order to focus the mind, and/or communicate with the universe or gods, like attracts like, Sympathy.  The more beings/things that work towards the same goal, the more likely it will work.  Owner of X and I were on the same page, so is the owner of Y, Synchronicity.  When owner of X and owner of Y and I all get exactly what we need exactly when we need it and other positive things occur because of this one catalyst, Serendipity.  But of course there are times when God just says no.  He has bigger plans.

When I begin a ritual, these trends have not yet occurred, though I behave as if they have, thus moving my imprinted energy towards my goal.  But nothing has happened yet, so isn't that a bit self-delusional?  If I create this delusion and alter my life to fit this delusion then doesn't it become reality?  If I create a scenario in my head and believe wholeheartedly that it is real when any one else would say it's just coincidence, is that moment not my reality?  Have I not created a truth in my own life?  What if the coincidences continue?  How many have to happen before it's no longer circumstantial?  I guess it's all in what you believe.  If I or anyone believed it was just fiction, then the act would simply be pretend and we would cease doing it because it was futile.
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« Reply #6: May 22, 2009, 02:51:19 pm »

Up in the air on this one.  It's a toss up between projection and reality.  I really don't know, and I really don't care what exactly has made the things happen, the fact that they have happened is enough for me.  If I cast a spell or say a prayer asking that my family not come to harm, if they don't then I could say that the spell worked.  But how do I know that they would have if I had not cast the spell or said the prayer?  I don't.  Then again, what if, because I have that idea enforced in my head, I subconsciously alter certain things I am doing so that I accomplish that effect mundanely, without realizing it.

Meh, it's all the same thing to me.  Really I see magic more as a way to enforce in one's own mind the objectives one wishes to accomplish.  I don't see it as an independent force, or as anything unnatural, or what have you.  It's a means to an end, and if that end comes about, then I'm not really too worried about how it happened.

I kind of agree with this post. If it works, and there's no bad effects (as much as can be seen), who cares about the specifics of how it works? Like you said, it's a "means to an end"... the mechanics really aren't that important to me. It's interesting to speculate on them, but knowing them for sure is unlikely to ever occur, so I'm fine with being a bit in the dark on it.
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« Reply #7: September 06, 2009, 08:28:00 pm »

Fiction, Projection, or Reality?

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

Fiction: It is self-delusion to think that magic accomplishes anything.  Any "results" are just coincidence and have nothing to do with your actions.

Projection: You took real world action as well as performing magic.  The desired results are a consequence of your actions in the world.  Connecting these results to your magical actions is simply a method of reinforcing one's preferred (magical/religious) reality tunnel.

Reality: The magic you do really does affect the world.

Does using different techniques change your answer?  In other words, do you believe certain types of magic are more effective (for creating real change) than others?


For me it is a combination of the first two. I just do not see intent, hard work and goals as magic. In my view the tools and techniques are rather irrelevant but rather your own real world effort and work.

Let me put it this way, let's say I really would like to buy a certain book but I don't have nearby bookstores and the ones online are too expensive.

I keep shopping and I keep the book in mind. Then maybe a few months later I see the very same book I wanted on the bargain table at a local library. I did nothing else during that time except keep looking and keeping the idea in my mind.

I lit no candles, no rituals, no anything. Just intent. I am not trying to be abrasive here but I just feel that focusing on the idea is what is important and not whether you burn cinnamon or light a green candle.

I just see the issue differently.
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« Reply #8: September 29, 2009, 01:53:48 am »

When you perform magic and achieve results what do you think is happening?

I honestly don't know. The times that I have attempted to perform magic there were either no results or easily-explainable results. Yet I am open to the possibility that magic is more than fiction, and maybe even more than projection. I certainly won't discount the experience of others.
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