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Author Topic: Fictional Characters in Religion and Magic.  (Read 29596 times)
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Last Login:October 15, 2018, 01:03:39 pm
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« Reply #43: November 20, 2008, 09:16:17 pm »

I will say, though, I think that's generally a risk you run if you're working with actual trickster deities, too.  (I'm actually wondering if Cartman might be closer to the sense of a trickster than Bart; they're not exactly known for being cute and lovable either.)  I don't think, therefore, that this is a danger specific to dealing with fictional characters.  I would also not necessarily assume (based on the information given; you may know better yourself, I don't know) that the guy talking about working with Cartman-as-trickster wasn't considering the whole entity.  People do work with tricksters, danger and all; not everyone necessarily considers "this entity did some really nasty stuff" as a reason to shy away from working with said entity.  I don't think that's so much stupidity (necessarily, although it can be), just a different idea of what sort of risk they're willing to take to achieve their goal.

That's a very interesting point I think.  As you seem to have picked up, part of the issue here is that I'm not overly keen on the magican in question on a personal level.  Which I accept is going to heavily cloud my judgement here.  That said, I suspect it's more productive to try and put that to one side and examine the issue on a more general level.

I think you're absolutely right that's a risk you run working with trickster deities fullstop.  Even at their most benevolent, tricksters aren't in any way "safe".  I think that the issue about not thinking things through is actually one that applies to some people who work with classical tricksters as well.  I'm absolutely not saying that's true across the board.  But tricksters do seem to attract a segment of occultists who very much like the image of working with tricksters, and have that as their primary motive.  I think, to that segment, tricksters are sometimes seen as simply "cool" to work with, without much more thought then that.

Chaos magic (or more specifically chaos magicans) would seem to run the risk of that issue for several reasons.  Firstly, quite honestly, chaos magic has always attracted more then it's fair share of the kind of people who wear sunglasses in nightclubs.  I have those kind of "wannabe rock star" tendencies myself, which I try to at least keep an awareness of.  And those kind of people are going to be more prone to doing stuff because, at least partly, because it seems a bit 'dangerous'.  The second factor is the whole 'kid in a sweet shop' tendency.  When people first start working with pop culture icons, especially if they're getting results, it feels very exciting and novel.  And that's when people start running round trying to shoehorn any pop culture figure they have a fondess for into a working, without necessarily thinking about it deeply.  I certainly did.  On the other hand, that is so common, that I suspect it may be a necessary 'rite of passage' in pop culture work, at least for many people.

On Cartman specifically, I'm not actually sure he's that close to the sense of a trickster in the first place.  Even at their most dangerous/amoral, tricksters seem to me to be transgressive.  And tricksters cause change, for better or worse.  I don't think Cartman fufils that role- actually, he's very stagnant.  So, without that, you have a figure who's essential essence is the fact that he's a sociopath.

But yes, I take your point on there being perfectly valid reasons to work with 'darker' entities.  I didn't mean to give on the impression that I thought that was always a bad or stupid idea, though I can see why it came across like that.  I merely think that people should be a bit cautious and think carefully before doing so.

People who talk about revolution and class struggle without referring explicitly to everyday life, without understanding what is subversive about love and what is positive in the refusal of constraints, such people have a corpse in their mouth.
(Raoul Vaneigem)

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