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Waldfrau
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« Topic Start: September 08, 2008, 10:10:46 am »

As an uncommited newbie I'm curious to hear about what the more experienced members have to tell about spiritual and 'real-life' consequences of choosing their paths or making specific commitments. Also I'd like to hear from those who are at the beginning of a path or commitment, what they think the consequences will be and how that affects their choice.

  • Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?
  • When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice
  • Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts.


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« Reply #1: September 08, 2008, 05:17:05 pm »

As an uncommited newbie I'm curious to hear about what the more experienced members have to tell about spiritual and 'real-life' consequences of choosing their paths or making specific commitments. Also I'd like to hear from those who are at the beginning of a path or commitment, what they think the consequences will be and how that affects their choice.

  • Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?
  • When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice
  • Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts.




Well, I'm basically still on the same path I was born to (unadventurous, me).  Changes and additions I've made, like adding tarot cards and European-style magic, have been accepted with interest by family members on the same path, and with tolerance or indulgence by those on other paths.  So, no pain there.

Talking about things, though, is another matter.  The people who know me in real life, know me in real life.  The people who know me online have a right to expect a certain consistency in some things, and it is not always apparent if in one situation I put down a particular technique and in another I applaud it, that I am not being hypocritical but am getting my opinions from different influences within the same path.

That's a little unclear, but if I, in one post, warn against, say, astral experimenting, and in another say 'yeah, I recognize that place - good times' people who took my advice may well wonder if I was just going all spooky on them.  There isn't enough scope in most threads to go into all the minutiae of everything, and i tend to write novels as it is, so I am left with looking hypocritical or as if I have lost track of my persona.

Add that to the things one is unwilling to say in even the most accepting of surroundings, and to the desire to help or inform, and actually talking about things can be the most uncomfortable and potentially painful part of a path.  It's more of an ongoing revelation problem than a strictly 'coming out' one, though.

In some circumstances, though, not talking just seems cowardly.  Damned if you do....etc.

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« Reply #2: September 08, 2008, 10:58:00 pm »

As an uncommited newbie I'm curious to hear about what the more experienced members have to tell about spiritual and 'real-life' consequences of choosing their paths or making specific commitments. Also I'd like to hear from those who are at the beginning of a path or commitment, what they think the consequences will be and how that affects their choice.

  • Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?
  • When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice
  • Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts.


I have faced a lot of difficulty and pain following my path, but I think this is more about my own moral integrity generally, and less about the specifics of what I do and think. I am not very willing, especially at this point in my life, to deny my own reality to make other people feel safer or more comfortable. I don't go out of my way to make people feel unsafe or uncomfortable, by any means, I of course try and consider other people's feelings and needs, but I have a pretty hard an fast bottom line; if you *need me to be someone else in order to be around me, don't bother being around me, is my basic philosophy. I have never been afraid of consequences, although I see this more as a personal character flaw than anything else. I could really stand to be somewhat less impulsive, for ex., I hope that this is mellowing out as I get older, but so far not much.



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« Reply #3: September 08, 2008, 11:01:16 pm »


That's a little unclear, but if I, in one post, warn against, say, astral experimenting, and in another say 'yeah, I recognize that place - good times' people who took my advice may well wonder if I was just going all spooky on them.  There isn't enough scope in most threads to go into all the minutiae of everything, and i tend to write novels as it is, so I am left with looking hypocritical or as if I have lost track of my persona.

Add that to the things one is unwilling to say in even the most accepting of surroundings, and to the desire to help or inform, and actually talking about things can be the most uncomfortable and potentially painful part of a path.  It's more of an ongoing revelation problem than a strictly 'coming out' one, though.

In some circumstances, though, not talking just seems cowardly.  Damned if you do....etc.

Absent

yeah, I hear you on this. I don't care much anymore whether people think I'm a new age woohoo, or a spooky freak, or whatever they may think. If I am able to be of assistance from time to time, that's cool, and if I'm able to learn from others, that's even better. We are all here to learn.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #4: September 09, 2008, 12:11:51 pm »

Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?

Yep. But in hindsight, it was all pretty reasonable. (It is pretty fair to say that my path choices led to the dissolving of my marriage, which counts as difficulty and pain. That said, I think it would have happened *anyway*, just more slowly, and probably more painfully, since I take keeping one's promises and informed consent issues really seriously regardless of my religious path.)

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When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice

I thought lots and lots about many things - about implications for work, for relationships, for other choices. I also thought lots about how I couldn't predict the change in advance. I'm reminded of a passage in Suzette Haden Elgin's book, _Native Tongue_ where a main character points out that when you set out to change the world, you don't know what's going to make sense after it's changed. You can do some planning, but really, you're just going to have to adapt and run with it.

I've also rethought it at each step: my 3rd, in particular, is something I knew would have an impact on future relationships, friendships, and work - not because of the religious content, per se, but because of the time commitments and related things involved.

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Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?

There's a difference between 'nervous about' and 'afraid of' - but quite honestly, I'd be worried about any major commitment/ongoing change in my life that I *wasn't* nervous about. If I'm making a big new shift in direction, there should be some uncertainty there: if I'm feeling absolutely certain about it, it's probably not as big a change as I think it is, y'know?

That's gone for everything from getting married to getting divorced to going to grad school to going back to grad school, to moving half way across the country, to job hunting, etc.
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« Reply #5: September 09, 2008, 04:40:37 pm »

I'm reminded of a passage in Suzette Haden Elgin's book, _Native Tongue_

I love that book!  That, and the Responsible of Brightwater books, informed a lot of my newly-adult perspectives on language and the world.

I'm almost afraid to find and re-read them, though.  I know I kind of ran with some of the concepts in completely unsupported ways.  I'm not sure I would find them as enjoyable/relevant now.

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« Reply #6: September 09, 2008, 06:14:10 pm »

I love that book!  That, and the Responsible of Brightwater books, informed a lot of my newly-adult perspectives on language and the world.

I'm almost afraid to find and re-read them, though.  I know I kind of ran with some of the concepts in completely unsupported ways.  I'm not sure I would find them as enjoyable/relevant now.

I'm still fond of them - they're in my "reread about every 2 years" pile, mostly.

She's got a blog on LiveJournal - http://ozarque.livejournal.com - where, if you're interested in her gentle art of verbal self-defense stuff, she's doing a lot of analysis and discussion right now of campaign language (but there's very cool other things in the archives, too - a long discussion over multiple posts on elders in society, on death and dying, on caretaking, and a bunch of related things.)
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« Reply #7: September 09, 2008, 10:12:41 pm »


Thank you.  I used to have that bookmark, but it didn't survive my last couple computer switches.  And The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense is still in my active book collection.

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Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
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That's how the light gets in

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« Reply #8: September 10, 2008, 01:43:29 am »

  • Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?

The most difficult part was convincing certain people that my path wasn't about magic, or about "cool, witchy stuff".  When my husband and I first met, he was one of those, and he continued to be proud of my "witchiness" for about the first two years of our marriage.  I think after the initial "coolness" wore off, it was more along the idea of him seeing me as being different and unafraid of being so, which he personally has a hard time doing (he's one of the "go along with the crowd" types). 

The problem with it was that he was willing to tell anyone and everyone that I was a witch, without any reason for them to know (such as the topic being brought up), and really without quite understanding that a) I wasn't a witch, and b)what a witch or a pagan was.  Once he sort of figured out what I had been trying to explain to him (basically once he got over the fact that I was not part of a mainstream religion enough to actually listen to me), he started to realize that everyone does not need to know personal details of my life. 

It also doesn't help that I tend to be a bit antisocial, and very private, and everytime he would do that it would stretch my nerves very thin, because I didn't feel like explaining to someone I didn't know what my path was, etc.

He still hasn't gotten to the point where he understands my antisocial tendencies, or the fact that I really could give half a bat's rump less what anyone thinks of me (again, two very different viewpoints, he's a very social butterfly).  We still get into tiffs about that part, but at least he shows enough respect for me to not say anything about my religion, without knowing that the person/people already know about it.

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  • When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice

I really didn't think too much about the consequences.  The biggest thing I was afraid of was really my family's opinion.  I'm the type though to go ahead and face my fears right on, so the first thing I did was prepare for and go ahead with "coming out" to my family.  I did this as soon as I felt certain that I had chosen the right path for me.  I called them together, and told them. 

Consideration for the possible consequences didn't affect my choice at all actually.  The only thing it did do was ensure that I understood enough about the path I chose to be able to explain it to those I loved and trusted.

In fact, my path has changed over the years, and anytime it does, I do consider the possible implications, but only in order to be prepared to explain it, never to hold back from making a choice.  If I ever held back, then I would feel incomplete, which would make me a very miserable person.  Every choice I have ever made has led me to the point I am at right now.  I dont feel I have reason to regret anything I have done, simply because if I hadn't done so, I would not have learned the lessons I learned, or had some of the experiences I had, and because of some of the choices I have made, I have very strong friendships (even though these are few, I favor the strength of a relationship that can last after six years of no contact, to one that doesn't last a single small tiff) and three beautiful children (who, no matter what my life may bring or has brought, I will never regret those events that helped bring them to me). 


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  • Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?

Absolutely.  But I read or heard somewhere (I believe it may have been from my pap), something along the lines of "The fool fears nothing, the brave face their fears."  It has been a defining part of my path, from the times before I left Christianity, until now.  It always will be.

I would rather face my fears and do what I know/feel is right, even if that means being ostracized, than never know what might have been.  I would rather my children see me for who I am, than what society wishes to see.  That is the best legacy I feel I can leave my children, is to not fear what others may think.  I have never had any problems with this, and do not expect to.  I have been given respect for following a path that is not "normal", even if others do not agree with it.  The fact that I do not change with the wind, is one of the things that people actually like about me (even if there are occassions in which I cannot express what I think or feel about something).

On a sort of side note, I have never really experienced any "consequences" for following my path.  I have never been ostracized or attacked (except by fundies, which I do not count among those I would want as friends anyway...).  I have never had to hide my beliefs for the safety of myself or my family, even though people thought it was odd, they appreciated more my honesty and determination (read: stubbornness to some).  In fact, I have seen respect because of the code of honor that is part of my path, and those who know of it, also know that my code is part of it. 

The worst consequences I have actually seen have been from my lapses away from my path, because they usually ended up with me not giving a bats rear about anyone or anything.
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« Reply #9: September 11, 2008, 02:29:57 pm »

To all:
Thanks for all the interesting answers!

There's a difference between 'nervous about' and 'afraid of'
Thanks for pointing that out, there are subtle semantic differences in English vocabulary I miss too often. (Not to mention that some of those misses really hurt because they get me into pointless fights...)
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« Reply #10: September 11, 2008, 02:53:10 pm »

  • Have you ever faced any difficulties or pain for following your path?
  • When you choose your path/ choose to make your commitment, what did you think about the consequences and how did it affect your choice
  • Have you ever been afraid of the consequences for choosing a specific path or making a specific commitment?
As I'm not commited to a specific path yet so I can't fully answer my own questions. But what I can say is that it was quite a step for (silly) me to accept my religiosity/spirituality the way it is - just slightly different from the norm. I have been nervous about religious issues as a kid because I felt I couldn't fit in. (And my environment didn't take it very well that I was different than expected.) So I think to accept finally, that yes, I don't fit in with what was expected of me, I kind of already commited myself to something - at least to myself being honest with myself and therefore trusting my own feelings about the universe and the divine/deity. (I hope I don't bore you all with elaborating on baby steps.)

However I'm still very nervous about how my friends and any potential boyfriends would react to any choices outside the norm, because most of my friends got to know me when I was atheist or just agnostically believing in some vague divine without researching Pagan religions. I wasn't nervous when I researched Buddhism and Taoism the way I'm about Paganism. But I've always been a bit careful about the esoteric. I don't leave Tarot cards lying around or stuff like that. But maybe now I don't live in the student's dorm anymore I could allow myself more freedom... Also there's one friend I'm trying to open up to more in that matter and she did not only tolerate but actually showed interest in a couple of things I wouldn't have guessed. Albeit I have the feeling that I need a lot of time to work on that nervousness step by step. And I'm especially nervous about some of my Christian friends, I've no idea how to tell them (or what exactly).
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« Reply #11: September 14, 2008, 03:12:58 pm »

Add that to the things one is unwilling to say in even the most accepting of surroundings, and to the desire to help or inform, and actually talking about things can be the most uncomfortable and potentially painful part of a path.  It's more of an ongoing revelation problem than a strictly 'coming out' one, though.

In some circumstances, though, not talking just seems cowardly.  Damned if you do....etc.

I hear you.  One of the consequences of my path has been that I could come across as crazy.  Another consequence is that it's important for me to speak up.
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« Reply #12: September 14, 2008, 03:25:21 pm »

Albeit I have the feeling that I need a lot of time to work on that nervousness step by step. And I'm especially nervous about some of my Christian friends, I've no idea how to tell them (or what exactly).

In my experience, people can be amazingly understanding.  Also, you don't necessarily have to tell everyone all at once, or tell them at all.
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« Reply #13: October 21, 2008, 12:53:47 am »

I was raised as an agnostic in a secular home, where religion was not part of every day life. This was an odd childhood, because I grew up in the Bible Belt, where everyone else was a Christian and went to church. My high school had prayer meetings in the mornings and if you weren't a Christian you were lower than dirt. So I kept mum about any religious/spiritual beliefs that I had, even though I have always been a Pagan, even as a small child. I still live in the South, in the Bible Belt, and no one seeing me on the street would know that I was a Pagan. Because I've always been a loner and an outsider (in more ways than just my religion), I've learned how to blend into the background and not get noticed by others. It is an artform and I've perfected it over the years. But at least this way I could worship as I chose to and not be bothered by others. So I was able to be as Pagan as I wanted to be. This lasted until I got married the first time.

My first husband knew that I was Pagan when we met. I mean, it was a little difficult to bypass the altar and the various books on Witchcraft on the shelves. He was an atheist and in the beginning religion/spiritual matters didn't seem to matter to him and he let me do what I wanted to do. But he was one of those atheists who felt that any kind of religious expression was wrong. So soon he was very controlling about my religious views. The fact that I was working in a New Age shop didn't help matters. He was convinced that my co-workers and customers were brainwashing me, because they were believers in Atlantis, UFO conspiracy theories, indigo children, ley lines, channeling, etc. I tried to explain to him the differences as to what I believed and what they believed, but that only went in one ear and out the other. So I laid low and worshipped in secret and did what I wanted to do.

After the divorce I was free to indulge in my religion again and the next guy that I was (briefly) involved with was a Witch and a member of a coven, so I was able to feel like myself once more. I have now been married to my second husband for eight years. He is agnostic and he doesn't mind what my beliefs are and how I choose to worship. He has stood by me as I've gone from Wiccan to Celtic Recon and on my way to Druidry. He knows that I'm not going to attempt to force my religious ideas down his throat.

Since I've gotten older I care less and less what others think about me. I still don't like confrontation, so I'm still usually quiet about my own beliefs when it comes to strangers. But if people ask I will tell them that I am a Pagan and proud to be one. I don't volunteer information, but I won't lie about it if asked what my religion is.



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