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Author Topic: Your religion, or your magic?  (Read 27020 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #60: October 12, 2008, 03:45:07 pm »

Witches cast circles, and lots of witches are Wiccan. However, there are a few (not many, but a few) Wiccans I know that do not cast circles. They practice the earth based (go green type) philosophies only. I'm not Wiccan, and although I've studied (and am studying) Wicca, and this is the path that most similarly describes my practice, I'm by no means an expert. It might be smarter to ask someone who is Wiccan. I'm not entirely sure how the "earth worshipper only" fits in with the Wiccan "rules," for lack of a better word, other than (at least in modernized Wicca, though I doubt Gardner would agree) your inner self is supposed to guide your practice - no magic necessary.

That's REALLY not Wicca anymore.  It's something else.

With no disrespect to the practitioners - I'm not Wiccan either.  I just really like proper terminology - and I think the whole "Wicca is everything" model really is a disservice to seekers that need to find something else.
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« Reply #61: October 12, 2008, 03:59:55 pm »

That's REALLY not Wicca anymore.  It's something else.

With no disrespect to the practitioners - I'm not Wiccan either.  I just really like proper terminology - and I think the whole "Wicca is everything" model really is a disservice to seekers that need to find something else.

I agree, Wicca can be kind of a catch all term used for various Pagan practices. I'm definitely not trying to further this misconception. I can only relay what I've been told by some who call themselves Wiccan to those that ask . Not being Wiccan, or studying Wicca exclusively myself makes it hard to differentiate between truths and non-truths.

Can I ask what you call "really" Wicca? Are you speaking of Gardner's practice and protocol?...just curious
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« Reply #62: October 12, 2008, 04:09:54 pm »

I agree, Wicca can be kind of a catch all term used for various Pagan practices. I'm definitely not trying to further this misconception. I can only relay what I've been told by some who call themselves Wiccan to those that ask . Not being Wiccan, or studying Wicca exclusively myself makes it hard to differentiate between truths and non-truths.

Can I ask what you call "really" Wicca? Are you speaking of Gardner's practice and protocol?...just curious

I rather like the definition given by the Wiccan Church of Canada, because I like how they lay it out - they give a list of things, and point out that the further you get from those things, the more likely it is you might do a bit better to use a different term.

http://wcc.on.ca/faq/faq1.html#faq1.2

I'm an initiate and priestess in a structured initiatory mystery based religious witchcraft trad - I tend towards a strict definition of Wicca that leaves us out on several counts: our deities are not necessarily sexually involved with each other, for one. I think that's a significant change, even though we do include the Great Rite (as a symbol of union and creation) as part of our rituals.

I am definitely in the camp that says "If you're not casting circle, you're doing something sufficiently different that you should maybe find another term than Wicca." because it's core to how we create and view sacred space into which we invite deity.

(edited to drop the link I'd forgotten in).
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« Reply #63: October 12, 2008, 04:18:28 pm »

Can I ask what you call "really" Wicca? Are you speaking of Gardner's practice and protocol?...just curious

I figure, if it doesn't have reproductive sex between the gods as the center part of the ritual, and it doesn't include at least as much magic as casting circles and the like (BOTH, not either-or), it's not really Wicca.  It might be Wicca-ish, it might be related or descended from Wicca - but it's not Wicca.
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« Reply #64: October 12, 2008, 06:35:34 pm »

I'll stick my seemingly more and more frequent disclaimer in here....these are just my opinions (and facts as I understand them), please don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

It might be helpful to understand that this is a debate and discussion board.  When someone disagrees with you, they aren't necessarily saying that you need to change your mind, and they're certainly not implying that you're a bad person or anything like that.  They're just presenting another point of view, giving you information or a perspective that you may not have had before.  Maybe that changes your mind, maybe it doesn't.  Shrug.  The point is, they're just discussing--which is, after all, what we're here for.  Wink
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« Reply #65: October 12, 2008, 07:15:32 pm »

...Which came first?

Did you practice magic before you found/developed your religious path? Or did you already have your religious leanings before you began to delve into magic?

In your own personal view of things, is the one in direct correlation with the other? Or do you view them as completely separate things? Why?

I'm not sure I would classify my clairvoyance as magic but that definitely came from an early age. My working with energy also came at an early age and of course I thought everyone else could do it as well. I think they all came about the same time. Though my mother practiced Paganism she encouraged me to explore other religions/spiritual practices before I settled down with Paganism. Today I'm a Spiritual person that just happens to say "I'm a Heathen/Pagan...its much easier than explaining spiritualism."

I think that your ability to work with and channel energy will depend on your faith in your own ability and how much you put your faith in whatever Deity you choose to worship.
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« Reply #66: October 12, 2008, 11:45:02 pm »

Witches cast circles, and lots of witches are Wiccan. However, there are a few (not many, but a few) Wiccans I know that do not cast circles. They practice the earth based (go green type) philosophies only.

Ah, ok. I agree with HeartShadow and Jenett here. I don't think that's Wicca. Of course I'm not Wiccan either, but for what I've studied and read about Wicca over the years, there are a few things you have to do to be Wiccan.

I figure, if it doesn't have reproductive sex between the gods as the center part of the ritual, and it doesn't include at least as much magic as casting circles and the like (BOTH, not either-or), it's not really Wicca.  It might be Wicca-ish, it might be related or descended from Wicca - but it's not Wicca.

I think these are good examples of it. And this is why I don't call myself Wiccan, even if I honor a God and Goddess since my Wiccan times (I honor other gods and goddesses too, with a more reconstructionist approach). I don't follow a seasonal cycle, except small celebrations when it's harvest time (there are fruit trees on my backyard Smiley ), and my religion isn't based on sex between the God and Goddess. And there are other things also, but I think this is enough for an example.
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« Reply #67: October 12, 2008, 11:50:02 pm »

Witches cast circles, and lots of witches are Wiccan.

I'm a witch, and I tend not to cast circles. But then again I'm not Wiccan either. I lot of the Neo-Wiccans that I come into contact with cast circles (I haven't been around a lot of Traditional Wicca members) and they have mixed reactions when they hear I don't tend to begin my magic by casting a circle. Some believe this means I'm not a witch, others just realize I'm a different type of witch, and so far one has insisted that one can't be a witch and not be Wiccan  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #68: October 12, 2008, 11:51:29 pm »

Ah, ok. I agree with HeartShadow and Jenett here. I don't think that's Wicca. Of course I'm not Wiccan either, but for what I've studied and read about Wicca over the years, there are a few things you have to do to be Wiccan.

I think these are good examples of it. And this is why I don't call myself Wiccan, even if I honor a God and Goddess since my Wiccan times (I honor other gods and goddesses too, with a more reconstructionist approach). I don't follow a seasonal cycle, except small celebrations when it's harvest time (there are fruit trees on my backyard Smiley ), and my religion isn't based on sex between the God and Goddess. And there are other things also, but I think this is enough for an example.

makes sense to me  Smiley
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« Reply #69: October 13, 2008, 12:51:30 am »

I'm a witch, and I tend not to cast circles. But then again I'm not Wiccan either. I lot of the Neo-Wiccans that I come into contact with cast circles (I haven't been around a lot of Traditional Wicca members) and they have mixed reactions when they hear I don't tend to begin my magic by casting a circle. Some believe this means I'm not a witch, others just realize I'm a different type of witch, and so far one has insisted that one can't be a witch and not be Wiccan  Roll Eyes

I can't say I cast my circle either. I've met many Wiccan's that believe in order to be a witch we must meet up to everything they've read in a book. Also, I can't say I've notice the difference between casting a circle and not..except the work?
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« Reply #70: October 13, 2008, 01:17:17 am »

I'm a witch, and I tend not to cast circles. But then again I'm not Wiccan either. I lot of the Neo-Wiccans that I come into contact with cast circles (I haven't been around a lot of Traditional Wicca members) and they have mixed reactions when they hear I don't tend to begin my magic by casting a circle. Some believe this means I'm not a witch, others just realize I'm a different type of witch, and so far one has insisted that one can't be a witch and not be Wiccan  ::)

I also am a witch, and I only cast a circle sometimes. I didn't mean that all witches cast circles all the time.

Shows what they know. Witches have been around since long before the word Wicca was invented. (maybe created would be the correct terminology for the beginning of a word?) Don't you love it when someone tells you what you AREN'T! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #71: October 13, 2008, 07:27:36 am »

I can't say I cast my circle either. I've met many Wiccan's that believe in order to be a witch we must meet up to everything they've read in a book. Also, I can't say I've notice the difference between casting a circle and not..except the work?

Traditional Wicca is an oral tradition - you learn it by doing it with people who know the tradition and learn the sensations and feelings that go with it, so it's more than 'everything they've read in a book'.

As far as seeing the difference - I feel/sense/taste/hear/see a difference (and more than that, a difference depending on the type of circle cast)

If you don't, that's okay: but it's probably a sign that a Wiccan-based path in which a circle is important might not be the best fit. Because you're right: why go through the work if you don't see a point in it? Fortunately, there's lots of other options out there Smiley
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« Reply #72: October 13, 2008, 11:44:16 pm »

Shows what they know. Witches have been around since long before the word Wicca was invented. (maybe created would be the correct terminology for the beginning of a word?) Don't you love it when someone tells you what you AREN'T! Roll Eyes
Since the word "wicca" - or, more exactly, a set of related words; "wicca" pronounced "witch-ah" would be the masculine form, referring to a practitioner of (a certain sort of) magic - is the Anglo-Saxon (aka Old English) word from which "witch" derives, its invention can't predate witches-who-are-called-witches.

I'm in agreement with your main point - that there are plenty of witches, and ways to be a witch, that aren't Wiccan.  But the way you made that point suggests that you think the word "Wicca" itself is a modern coinage, rather than that the current pronunciation and application are modern usage of an older word.

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« Reply #73: October 14, 2008, 01:07:27 am »

Since the word "wicca" - or, more exactly, a set of related words; "wicca" pronounced "witch-ah" would be the masculine form, referring to a practitioner of (a certain sort of) magic - is the Anglo-Saxon (aka Old English) word from which "witch" derives, its invention can't predate witches-who-are-called-witches.

I'm in agreement with your main point - that there are plenty of witches, and ways to be a witch, that aren't Wiccan.  But the way you made that point suggests that you think the word "Wicca" itself is a modern coinage, rather than that the current pronunciation and application are modern usage of an older word.

Sunflower

The "Wicca" I was referring to was Gardner's religion. The way I read her post I assumed (yeah, yeah, I know, when you assume... Tongue) that the person making the statement about not being a witch if you weren't Wiccan was talking about the traditional Wiccan religion. I figured that the word Wicca was modified from some root word used in past eras, but I had no idea that it is just a modern pronunciation of an older word. I'd never read or heard that anywhere before. Thanks for the info! It's alwasys nice to learn something new.  Smiley
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« Reply #74: October 14, 2008, 08:22:16 pm »

...Which came first?

Did you practice magic before you found/developed your religious path? Or did you already have your religious leanings before you began to delve into magic?

In your own personal view of things, is the one in direct correlation with the other? Or do you view them as completely separate things? Why?

I definitely discovered my religious path first before I began to practice any form of magick. I first became involved in Wicca and it was several years before I began to practice any kind og magick, to cast any kinds of spells. I don't think that you absolutely need to practice magick. Some people are never comfortable with it and some prefer the religious aspects of their path. I myself kind of left magick behind and became more involved in the religious aspects of my path. I gradually left Wicca and got more involved with Reconstructionism, because I loved the history/anthropology/mythology/folklore more.

I'm becoming more and more drawn to Druidry, so I know that at some point I will probably start practicing magick once more. I just don't see it as an absolute necessity for my life. Though it is nice to be able to use when you need it.
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