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Author Topic: Your religion, or your magic?  (Read 26914 times)
Mystic_Novice
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« Reply #90: October 25, 2008, 11:27:12 pm »

We can do so without magic, so I don't see why we can't with magic.

Wow this is certainly getting interesting.

I find that everything around me that happens is a form of magic, so much strange stuff happens and I predict odd things that will happen, but I do not fully understand the term "magic"  Lips sealed I feel that when I conduct a prayer for a loved one to make it safe home I am sending energy in their general direction that they make it home safe, they they stay awake at the wheel or that the pilot who is flying their plane isn't feeling tired today, etc. When I practice a spell I am pushing all my will and energy to obtain that desired outcome and if it doesn't work I found that my goddesses are protecting me (as I soon find out that what I wanted wasn't needed or something bad happens).

I dunno, I just feel something and see changes all the time. I suppose that is why I believe in it Cheesy
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Raziel
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« Reply #91: October 30, 2008, 03:24:31 am »

The Catholic Church uses a neo-Platonic/Aristotelean description of what's occurring. The "accidents" of the bread and wine -- their outer matter -- remain bread and wine. The "substance" of the bread and wine -- their essence, or soul, or true being -- becomes body and blood. But it's not tangible or sensible, in the sense that one cannot interact with the "substance" with one's senses. One always interacts physically with the "accidents." One is ridiculous, if not outright heretical, if one claims one is interacting with "accidents" that have become body and blood. It's SUPPOSED to taste like bread and wine. To claim otherwise is a) absurd and b) missing the point.

Wow.  That makes a lot of sense.  I've often wondered on the Catholic view of the Communion.  In the Protestant services I've attended it always seemed like it was little more than a commemoration.   
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Koimichra
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« Reply #92: October 30, 2008, 09:04:44 am »

Wow.  That makes a lot of sense.  I've often wondered on the Catholic view of the Communion.  In the Protestant services I've attended it always seemed like it was little more than a commemoration. 

Protestants vary widely. Some of them are much like Catholics and have a similar (or the same) theology; others do it as a "simple" commemoration, or as something purely symbolic. And some let you believe anywhere along that spectrum. Cheesy

Also learning about substance and accidents when I was seven made it much easier to get Plato's forms later on!
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oonagh
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« Reply #93: October 30, 2008, 12:58:59 pm »

I mistyped that, sorry. You said Congregationalist. But, as I understand it, Congregationals are Protestant, which hold to the fact that the Bible is written pretty much as something not to be messed with; that there is only one true interpretation of the bible, and that's the literal one. If I'm mistaken I apologize.

Your beliefs are OK with me. I was just curious.

sorry it took so long for me to reply (i forgot about this thread  Embarrassed)

it's really bad how little i know about congregationalism. i have been pagan my whole life regardless of my upbringing. i *think* they were the original puritans which made them, yeah, really strict. however, i believe that now-a-days, they are quite liberal.
i guess i was just trying to make a point and didn't do it very well. i think you understand though and i do appreciate your curiosity.
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oonagh
oonagh
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« Reply #94: October 30, 2008, 01:06:06 pm »

In what regard?

You hit post, and your post appeared.  At what point does ability to cause change in the world disappear?

i suppose i mean with regard to magic. i don't believe that we can magically cause something to happen. i'm not sure of all the scientific terminology as i'm not a scientist, but i suppose i believe that the spirit makes things happen within the universe. all we can do is operate on the physical plane.
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oonagh
oonagh
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« Reply #95: October 30, 2008, 01:07:44 pm »

We can do so without magic, so I don't see why we can't with magic.

i completely understand and respect your belief 100%. i just don't agree.
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oonagh
mollimizz
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« Reply #96: November 01, 2008, 05:39:39 pm »

...Which came first?

Did you practice magic before you found/developed your religious path? Or did you already have your religious leanings before you began to delve into magic?

In your own personal view of things, is the one in direct correlation with the other? Or do you view them as completely separate things? Why?

 I wanted to make things happen at age 13, early 70's when there wasn't much info out there a teen
could get her hands on.
 So I'd have to say magick(or attempt of!), came first. At that time I could only bring the waitress or (?) get traffic light to change/stay green !
   Gentle Light
    Mollimizz 
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Jabberwocky
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« Reply #97: November 02, 2008, 04:56:11 pm »

i suppose i mean with regard to magic. i don't believe that we can magically cause something to happen. i'm not sure of all the scientific terminology as i'm not a scientist, but i suppose i believe that the spirit makes things happen within the universe. all we can do is operate on the physical plane.

However, one thing that quantum mechanics has brought us is that the universe is probalistic, as opposed to deterministic.

Bearing that in mind, I wouldn't see magic so much as making things happen, as subtlely altering the probability of something happening.
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« Reply #98: November 02, 2008, 05:26:59 pm »

However, one thing that quantum mechanics has brought us is that the universe is probalistic, as opposed to deterministic.

On the other had, the universe is effectively deterministic at the macro level.
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Jabberwocky
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« Reply #99: November 02, 2008, 06:01:00 pm »

On the other had, the universe is effectively deterministic at the macro level.

Can you clarify your meaning on that?  If something is "effectively" deterministic, does that differ from it having an incredibly high probability of happening?
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Meli
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« Reply #100: November 02, 2008, 08:09:44 pm »

...Which came first?

Did you practice magic before you found/developed your religious path? Or did you already have your religious leanings before you began to delve into magic?

In your own personal view of things, is the one in direct correlation with the other? Or do you view them as completely separate things? Why?

For me, magic came first (in the form of non-religious witchcraft).  I was never heavily involved with spellwork though, and haven't actually practiced magic for some time.  I've come to realize recently that it was always the ritual that appealed to me, more so than the magic itself.  (Not necessarily formalized ritual, just ritual in general).  However, ritual without a purpose - be it magical or spiritual - would be obsolete.

I do not have a religious path developed as yet, as it's only been recently (for the first time in my adult life) that I've been exploring religion again. But I view magic and religion/spirituality as completely separate things - that doesn't mean that they are never in correlation with each other, just that they are not dependent on each other. 
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oonagh
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« Reply #101: November 03, 2008, 09:36:06 am »

Can you clarify your meaning on that?  If something is "effectively" deterministic, does that differ from it having an incredibly high probability of happening?

this is where i wish i were a scientist =O)
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oonagh
Jabberwocky
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« Reply #102: November 03, 2008, 06:27:19 pm »

this is where i wish i were a scientist =O)

Heh.  I'm actually one of the least scientific people you'll ever meet.  Wink  I mostly look at things like this from more of a philosophical angle.  That's why people like Randall with an actual understanding of science are very useful for me- it stops me from taking stuff places it can't really fit into comfortably.
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oonagh
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« Reply #103: November 04, 2008, 12:09:26 pm »

Heh.  I'm actually one of the least scientific people you'll ever meet.  Wink  I mostly look at things like this from more of a philosophical angle.  That's why people like Randall with an actual understanding of science are very useful for me- it stops me from taking stuff places it can't really fit into comfortably.

ha! nice to have someone to "play" off of. i get all caught up in terminology and semantics =O).
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oonagh

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