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Author Topic: Conservative Pagans  (Read 22660 times)
Icarus Revnant
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« Topic Start: October 06, 2008, 04:48:25 am »

Just wondering, are there any other conservative pagans out there?  I live in a liberal Protestant city, and sometimes I feel edgy.

Also, if others exist, how do you reconcile the fact that most of our religious compatriots are liberal?
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« Reply #1: October 06, 2008, 07:10:10 am »

Just wondering, are there any other conservative pagans out there?  I live in a liberal Protestant city, and sometimes I feel edgy.

Also, if others exist, how do you reconcile the fact that most of our religious compatriots are liberal?
Conservative here.  I generally avoid discussing politics unless I'm sure the other person can do more than parrot empty slogans-- and that goes for both liberals and conservatives.
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RandallS
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« Reply #2: October 06, 2008, 08:47:02 am »

Just wondering, are there any other conservative pagans out there?  I live in a liberal Protestant city, and sometimes I feel edgy.

Pagans come in all political persuasions. Many, if not most, in the US are liberal because -- perhaps because many Pagan religious moral tenets do not fit well with those conservative political positions in the US. Also, many American Pagans are seen as liberal because they are not SOCIALLY conservative. Many Pagans who are fairly fiscally conservative or prefer small government where possible are considered flaming liberals because they support a woman's right to an abortion, equal pay for equal work, or the separation of church and state.
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« Reply #3: October 06, 2008, 09:20:51 am »

Just wondering, are there any other conservative pagans out there?  I live in a liberal Protestant city, and sometimes I feel edgy.

Also, if others exist, how do you reconcile the fact that most of our religious compatriots are liberal?


The key is, most of us here in the USA are programmed by our culture to see politics only in terms of 'liberal' versus 'conservative'. The truth is, the real truth, is that there is a continuum of political views. You can have pro-life devout Catholics who disagree with the Republican Party about virtually everything else, and you can have adamant supporters of states' rights and fiscal conservatism like me, who are otherwise socially liberal.

There is a entire universe of political possibilities that most of us never even consider. The people who think and dream about those possibilities tend to be called 'mavericks' or 'radicals', depending on who's criticizing them.

I think that many people in the USA are drawn to the various Pagan spiritualities, as a reaction against the patriarchal teachings and theological hypocrisy of certain Christian denominations and Christian-derived religions. Patriarchy, laissez-faire economics, and American-style right-wing politics go hand in hand. Rebelling against one, is to become the stated enemy of the others.

That's partly why so many people who self-identify as Pagans also share 'liberal' beliefs, in my opinion. Our political labels often tend to evaporate like morning mist in the sunlight of close examination, however.       
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« Reply #4: October 06, 2008, 10:52:56 am »


Patriarchy, laissez-faire economics, and American-style right-wing politics go hand in hand. Rebelling against one, is to become the stated enemy of the others.

Or to put it another way: To identify as pagan is to become a member of an unpopular minority. The conservative movement has a history of hostility to the rights of unpopular minorities. Therefore most pagans gravitate away from conservatism.
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« Reply #5: October 06, 2008, 03:26:00 pm »

The key is, most of us here in the USA are programmed by our culture to see politics only in terms of 'liberal' versus 'conservative'.

Also, US political terminology and discourse is deeply screwed up.  Lots of stuff that gets called far-out liberal in this country would be centrist or even slightly right of center in Europe.

I'm in favor of fiscal responsibility (nominally 'conservative'), a strong social safety net (nominally 'liberal') and hate adopting wild-eyed new ideas over tried-and-true things that are proven to work (what I consider the essence of conservatism).  Mind, because I oppose new-fangled modern, half-assed notions like "civil union" when there's perfectly functional, stress-tested "marriage" already existing, my "conservative" winds up looking "liberal".  Or something.

This is my conservative.
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« Reply #6: October 06, 2008, 04:10:07 pm »

This is DH's conservative, and hopefully my link-fix worked.

Sunflower
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« Reply #7: October 06, 2008, 04:56:30 pm »

This is DH's conservative, and hopefully my link-fix worked.
It did, and I was amused but not very surprised to find that the article described a conservatism this left-leaning libertarian could respect.

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« Reply #8: October 06, 2008, 05:01:09 pm »

Also, US political terminology and discourse is deeply screwed up.  Lots of stuff that gets called far-out liberal in this country would be centrist or even slightly right of center in Europe.

Doesn't just show that Europe is much more liberal than the US though?  I don't see that as screwed up.

Now, if you were to point to issues that were all liberal in the US, but some were liberal and some were rightist in Europe I might agree with it being screwed up in that regard.
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« Reply #9: October 06, 2008, 05:14:59 pm »

This is DH's conservative, and hopefully my link-fix worked.

Sunflower

Interesting, and a lot I like.

But ...

It seems to be shoving liberal ideas as being conservative without explaining why they should be also conservative ideas.
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« Reply #10: November 08, 2008, 10:36:14 am »

It did, and I was amused but not very surprised to find that the article described a conservatism this left-leaning libertarian could respect.

Sunflower

I consider myself an as yet unofficial conservative libertarian (didn't change my voter reg in time).  *waves hello.  Thanx for the link.  it was interesting. 
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« Reply #11: November 08, 2008, 10:57:36 am »

Lots of stuff that gets called far-out liberal in this country would be centrist or even slightly right of center in Europe.

Yes... I suppose that over here (especially living in France) I consider myself slightly on the conservative side which puts me somewhere to the left of the average Democrat! Smiley

I don't think the US terminology is screwed up: Our centres are just displaced so it is natural that the terminology would be displaced, too.
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« Reply #12: February 07, 2009, 11:29:01 pm »

Just wondering, are there any other conservative pagans out there?  I live in a liberal Protestant city, and sometimes I feel edgy.

Also, if others exist, how do you reconcile the fact that most of our religious compatriots are liberal?

I'm a conservative although I consider myself a moderate Republican.  In other words, I believe in small government (a very Republican belief) but I'm also all for civil rights (a very Democratic belief).  I do feel alone sometimes in the pagan community in regards to my political beliefs.  I didn't vote for McCain but I also didn't vote for Obama.
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« Reply #13: February 08, 2009, 01:24:47 am »

[snip] I'm also all for civil rights (a very Democratic belief). [snip]

Republicans are not opposed to civil rights and have not opposed civil rights.  Re-read your 1960s history: it was Democratic government officials who fought to block the civil rights movement.  It was a Democratic governor who stood on the steps of the school in Little Rock, with the National Guard around him, to block the African-American children from entering.  Bull Connor, the sheriff who dispersed groups in civil disobedience with attack dogs, was a Democrat. 

The first African-Americans elected to Congress, a generation after the Civil War, were Republicans.

It was the Democratic Congresses of the early 20th century that repealed the equality-imposing laws of Reconstruction and imposed Jim Crow wherever they could, making it impossible for any African-American to be elected to Congress until the 1960s.

And considering how much harm Democratic policies have done to the African-American population of the US, I'm still shocked that any African-American would join the party themselves.

I'm a conservative Republican.  I believe in freedom of speech, association and religion; I believe that the government needs to be much smaller, and that it has overstepped its constitutional authority in many ways, spending our money in ways it has no right to spend it.  I believe the government isn't there to take care of us; it's there to protect our lives, our liberties and our right to pursue happiness... and that it has no other excuse for existence.  Government works best when it does least, because government is the anti-Midas: whatever it touches turns to crap.  We don't need the government to help us; we need the government to get the hlel out of our way so we can take care of ourselves.

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« Reply #14: February 08, 2009, 03:27:00 am »

And considering how much harm Democratic policies have done to the African-American population of the US, I'm still shocked that any African-American would join the party themselves.

I think we can safely say that the DP of today isn't the DP of the '60s, though.  Ditto for the RP...

Brina
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