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[Mithril]

Well its going against their personal beliefs.  I will get back to you guys with some stuff granted it will be Christian in orientation but it uses "real" science to explain (usually without mentioning the bible at all) why they have a beef against evolution and all kinds of stuff including how old the earth is tho you would please give me some time?  keep discussing among yourselves tho.  (not that their will be much to discuss since you all seem to have the same beliefs about this lol)

Personal beliefs should not be allowed to harm your future, especially if they are not based on fact. Just because something doesn't mention the bible, doesn't mean it's "real science".

What do you consider "real science"?

[FierFlye]

it irritates me because it's CRAP "science".  Mostly it's CRAP.  CRAP CRAP CRAP.  

*hands Shad the foam pool noodle*

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

*hands Shad the foam pool noodle*

WHEEEE!  *runs around whacking people with it*

the whole ID "debate" has done only one useful thing, IMO - it's created a much better view of what science is and isn't.

philosophy of science was SUCH a fun class!

*whackawhackawhack!*

[OpenHands]

I don't see whats up with the hostility I didn't do anything wrong.  Nor did I provoke anyone.  Honestly I think creating can hold up quiet a good amount of water in my opinion.  How did this stuff all get here?  It requires just as much faith to believe everything we have came from Chaos and Nothing at all as it is to believe in some divine creator. 

Just wanted to say that the strong response you're getting probably isn't hostility directed at you personally.  It's frustration with the topic.  I have to admit that I feel a little embarrassed at times thinking that much of the world is surging ahead in math and science and the U.S. can't seem to shake this mentality that math is for nerds and science is for liberal intellectual elitists that think we "came from monkeys" as I've heard some local rednecks so eloquently put it.  

It's a sore point for some, don't take it personally.

- OpenHands

[INsearch]

it irritates me because it's CRAP "science".  Mostly it's CRAP.  CRAP CRAP CRAP.  And it's harmful crap, too - because when you get rid of evolution, geology, and half of physics from the curriculum, that pretty much guts everything else.

Are we created?  Maybe.  Is Genesis literally true?  Not unless God really likes playing silly buggers with scientists.  (possible, evidence does not point that way).

My religion thinks that truth and logical thought are vastly important.  Seeking truth with an open mind (but not an empty one) is a Good.  Knowledge is a Good.  Holding to theories that make about as much sense as the idea that flapping your arms makes you a bird is BAD.

You can believe whatever the hell you want.  But this subject will NEVER fail to do anything other than irritate me, and that's because it's hamstringing an entire damn generation of students into crap concepts of reality and science.  It's helping us fall behind the rest of the world (Where people aren't as fucking stupid - do you really think they teach this shit in Germany?  I guarantee you not).

You can believe we were all created five minutes ago, or that you're the only real and this is all happening in your head, or that my toenail is the entire purpose of the universe.  But don't try to pass it off as science, because it isn't.  And there's no proof to it.  AT ALL.

I don't appreciate being mocked.

[catja6]

I don't appreciate being mocked.

You were not being mocked, you were being disagreed with.  Strongly.  Your position was attacked, not you.  This is a debate and discussion board: if you cannot tolerate being disagreed with, you need to find some other forum.  I don't see anything "mocking" about Shad's post, but even if she HAD mocked your position, it would STILL not be against the rules of this forum.

[nikkiwitch]

What are you guys views on this?  Their seems to be allot of people that think we have been around a million years and earth several billion years!  Why do we come to this conclusion?  because science says so?  I know I am not Christian anymore but I still hold to the idea that Earth is sooooooo much younger than stated what are you guys opinion?

We have been around forever, we are just a circle with no manmade time involved we just keep on this Karmic Wheel, when we perfect our earthly sojourns into each astrological sign then we will be set free. Some souls are younger than others,not the Earth itself. What evil thing is letting this happen.Sure, if there is a hell , than this is it.







 
sojourn

[RandallS]

I feel kinda contrary to this.... I admit that some stuff they have come up with could be true and are.  I think their are some good points "young earth creationists"  have come up with   

They have, on occasion, come up with some good points -- unfortunately none of them disprove evolution let alone prove their Young Earth Creation hypothesis. And the latter is what they need to do, prove -- using the tools of science -- that their Young Earth Creation hypothesis fits the observed facts better than evolution does. They have not come close and probably never will as their hypothesis is designed to fit one literal interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis and neither their hypothesis nor that particular literal interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis is a good fit for the observed facts.

[Koimichra]

I know I am not Christian anymore but I still hold to the idea that Earth is sooooooo much younger than stated what are you guys opinion?

That's because you don't understand the science, so a made-up unsupported set of statements sounds just as good to you as actual science.

[Koimichra]

It requires just as much faith to believe everything we have came from Chaos and Nothing at all as it is to believe in some divine creator.

Again, that's because you don't understand the science, so actual science sounds just as magical as spontaneous divine creation to you. If you had even a basic understanding of high school science, you wouldn't have this problem.

[Koimichra]

oooh, does your proof include the drowning fish?

I've always loved the drowning fish.  In different sedimentary layers.

It's my favorite.

My favorite are the ones that violate the laws of thermodynamics.

[RandallS]

My favorite are the ones that violate the laws of thermodynamics.

Ahh yes, evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics because they fail to understand that the Earth is not a closed system and the laws of thermodynamics appear to be violated all the time in open systems. So long as entropy is increasing for the universe overall, it does not matter than entropy decreases a bit in Earth because of evolution.

[Iago_Morgan]

They have, on occasion, come up with some good points -- unfortunately none of them disprove evolution let alone prove their Young Earth Creation hypothesis. And the latter is what they need to do, prove -- using the tools of science -- that their Young Earth Creation hypothesis fits the observed facts better than evolution does. They have not come close and probably never will as their hypothesis is designed to fit one literal interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis and neither their hypothesis nor that particular literal interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis is a good fit for the observed facts.

The funny thing is that the first few chapters of genesis contradict each other, both in the order and timeframe of creation.

[Iago_Morgan]

We have been around forever, we are just a circle with no manmade time involved we just keep on this Karmic Wheel, when we perfect our earthly sojourns into each astrological sign then we will be set free. Some souls are younger than others,not the Earth itself. What evil thing is letting this happen.Sure, if there is a hell , than this is it.
 
sojourn

Am I correct in understanding that you believe we reincarnate until we have been born into each astrological sign?

If so, is that just Sun signs (12 lifetimes per individual) or Sun/ Moon sign combos (144ish lifetimes per individual)?

Just curious, I believe in reincarnation, and have heard many different ideas as to the defferences between lifetimes, but I've never heard anything Astrology based.

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

I don't appreciate being mocked.

I fail to see how that's my problem.

Besides, that wasn't mocking.  That was honesty.

Mocking was when I asked about the drowning fish.  And I didn't even GET to the fleeing wombats!

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