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Author Topic: How long we been around?  (Read 21880 times)
RandallS
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« Reply #75: October 19, 2008, 04:58:30 pm »

Its called the Planetary Collision Theory, and was already on the way out as a primary explanation when I took geology over 20 years ago. 

I'm not sure that quite fits the description given: "its likely this earth maybe a compliation of many similiar planets which at some point collided ..."

The planetary collision theory did not have a "similar planets" part as I recall, unless one simply means "rocky planet" (as opposed to gaseous planet) by "similar."
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« Reply #76: October 19, 2008, 05:29:20 pm »

I'm not sure that quite fits the description given: "its likely this earth maybe a compliation of many similiar planets which at some point collided ..."

The planetary collision theory did not have a "similar planets" part as I recall, unless one simply means "rocky planet" (as opposed to gaseous planet) by "similar."

You very well could be right, I don't have my books to look it up, and I did that that course about 17 years ago. 
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« Reply #77: October 20, 2008, 12:39:43 am »

Thanks Shadow.... I now have this mental picture of the mammals from "Ice Age" clinging to the edge of an asteroid by their toenails, and screaming the whole way to Earth.  Tongue Cheesy

lol..you have a point, I'm not a geologist and yet I don't feel science  has advanced to the point where they know all the answers and they are mistaken oftentimes  constantly shifting their "facts" and intrepret new discovery..my idea may seem fantastic and it maybe, but then there are many theories that had no scientific support in their day..but later were proven to be true..
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« Reply #78: October 20, 2008, 08:18:16 am »

lol..you have a point, I'm not a geologist and yet I don't feel science  has advanced to the point where they know all the answers and they are mistaken oftentimes  constantly shifting their "facts" and intrepret new discovery..my idea may seem fantastic and it maybe, but then there are many theories that had no scientific support in their day..but later were proven to be true..

Well, that's what science IS - an interpretation of the evidence at hand with a best guess of what we've got.  That's exactly what it is.

That doesn't mean any idea you come up with counts, though - more ideas are on the dustbin of history than in the science books. Cheesy
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« Reply #79: October 20, 2008, 08:44:08 am »

oftentimes  constantly shifting their "facts" and intrepret new discovery

I don't think that scientists are shifting facts at all.  They're interpreting the data available to them, and as they uncover new data, the conclusions they draw naturally change to incorporate the new discoveries.  Conclusions, though, are not facts, and I'm not under the impression that science claims that they are.  Thus, again, they aren't changing their "facts" at all.

The problem that I think some posters are running into right now, if I understand correctly, is that the hypothesis you're putting forth doesn't appear to fit the data available at this time.  That's going to make it difficult to convince anyone that it's correct.
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« Reply #80: October 20, 2008, 08:51:51 am »


The problem that I think some posters are running into right now, if I understand correctly, is that the hypothesis you're putting forth doesn't appear to fit the data available at this time.  That's going to make it difficult to convince anyone that it's correct.

I think another issue is that some posters aren't familiar with *how* science works, and aren't familiar with the actual science of, in this example, the origin of the earth, techniques relating to scientific disciplines interested in the topic, etc.  Which kind of ties in with how this thread got started.
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« Reply #81: October 20, 2008, 09:01:50 am »



That doesn't mean any idea you come up with counts, though - more ideas are on the dustbin of history than in the science books. Cheesy

hmm, well I don't think  I can agree with that, I've found myself more times then I care to admit Roll Eyes, fishing out of the bin something I'd toss, only to find it had more value then I had first supposed.. Lips sealed
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« Reply #82: October 20, 2008, 09:14:21 am »

I think another issue is that some posters aren't familiar with *how* science works, and aren't familiar with the actual science of, in this example, the origin of the earth, techniques relating to scientific disciplines interested in the topic, etc.  Which kind of ties in with how this thread got started.

Agreed. It would seem many of the people who feel "science hasn't advanced" enough to refute their theories, haven't actually looked at the science in question.
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« Reply #83: October 20, 2008, 09:15:05 am »

hmm, well I don't think  I can agree with that, I've found myself more times then I care to admit Roll Eyes, fishing out of the bin something I'd toss, only to find it had more value then I had first supposed.. Lips sealed

I think you're comparing apples to oranges here.  An individual swapping ideas, discarding or reclaiming them, in the search for what kind of personal philosophy and practice works for them, is a very different situation from a scientist examining the physical facts of the universe as we know it and forming a hypothesis about what those facts mean.

And, again, just because the data changes doesn't mean that anything goes and every idea is just as valid as every other idea.  Some ideas match the current data better than others.  Those that don't seem to match at all are not going to get much support and are probably not going to be considered worth wasting much energy on unless new data comes to light that makes them more likely to be correct.
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« Reply #84: October 20, 2008, 09:42:33 am »

hmm, well I don't think  I can agree with that, I've found myself more times then I care to admit Roll Eyes, fishing out of the bin something I'd toss, only to find it had more value then I had first supposed.. Lips sealed

But that doesn't mean that science is just a bunch of people sitting around going "this sounds cool".

It's what matches the evidence.  (gods, I sound like CSI - "follow the evidence!  it will lead us to the killer!"  ahem).  If something doesn't match the evidence we have, it's probably not correct.  If it directly contradicts the evidence we have, it's almost certainly not right.

That doesn't mean where science is at right now is the be-all and end-all - if that was true, a lot of people I know would be out of jobs.  Their JOB is to investigate and find new things and research.

And it's not often that they find something that directly contradicts the previous research.  And even when that happens, that doesn't mean the previous theory is 100% wrong - it means it doesn't apply in this situation, and things are more complex than they seem.  Einstein might have proven that Newton's laws aren't 100%, but they still apply in our daily lives .....
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« Reply #85: October 20, 2008, 09:50:15 am »



And it's not often that they find something that directly contradicts the previous research.  And even when that happens, that doesn't mean the previous theory is 100% wrong - it means it doesn't apply in this situation, and things are more complex than they seem.  Einstein might have proven that Newton's laws aren't 100%, but they still apply in our daily lives .....

And every now and then, there's a big debate over specific methodologies, and how appropriate they are.  All in all, science involves a lot more hard work than the Cool Ideas Brigade.
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« Reply #86: October 20, 2008, 01:04:18 pm »

And every now and then, there's a big debate over specific methodologies, and how appropriate they are.  All in all, science involves a lot more hard work than the Cool Ideas Brigade.

I don't see anything wrong with having cool ideas, afterall Einstein formulated a question first, before trying to find out how it may work, from my perspective, we are each scientists, And how we relate to the universe doesn't necessarily have to agree with anyone elses perception of fact/truth, and an idea presented and rejected by some as not relavent or factual, doesnt necessarily mean it isnt.. Smiley
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« Reply #87: October 20, 2008, 01:06:41 pm »

I don't see anything wrong with having cool ideas, afterall Einstein formulated a question first, before trying to find out how it may work, from my perspective, we are each scientists, And how we relate to the universe doesn't necessarily have to agree with anyone elses perception of fact/truth, and an idea presented and rejected by some as not relavent or factual, doesnt necessarily mean it isnt.. Smiley

..... what?

Are you saying truth is mutable?  in that case, why bother trying to discover anything?  Science only works if there's an underlying reality TO discover!

And Einstein might have started with a question, but it was an educated one based on the problems of the day - he didn't wake up one morning and go "I wonder if light likes to play silly buggers with the laws of physics".
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« Reply #88: October 20, 2008, 01:25:28 pm »

I don't see anything wrong with having cool ideas

There's nothing wrong with having cool ideas.  Science is more than just having cool ideas, though.  Just because you have a cool idea doesn't make it scientifically viable.

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And how we relate to the universe doesn't necessarily have to agree with anyone elses perception of fact/truth,

Saying "this is how I relate to the universe" is an entirely different proposition from making a statement of fact about the universe or the origins of an object in the universe.  If the story of multiple different planetary bodies crashing into each other to make Earth speaks to you on a mythological level--fine.  No problem.  A meaningful story is a meaningful story, you use what speaks to you, and I can see how that particular story could work that way.  It could be a lovely metaphor for the diversity we encounter on our planet.  However, that doesn't mean that there is necessarily any reason to believe that things actually happened that way. 

And, you know, I don't think it has to be factual in order to hold meaning.  It's fine to say, "This is a totally made-up story, but this is how I relate to the universe."  I don't understand the need to justify it with science. 

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and an idea presented and rejected by some as not relavent or factual, doesnt necessarily mean it isnt.. Smiley

No, it doesn't.  However, if we look at the data available to us and it doesn't support that idea, then why should we accept it as factual?

And, again, "factual" and "relevant" are not synonyms and don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, particularly when talking about fuzzy religious and/or spiritual things like "relating to the universe".
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« Reply #89: October 20, 2008, 01:34:50 pm »

..... what?

Are you saying truth is mutable?  in that case, why bother trying to discover anything?  Science only works if there's an underlying reality TO discover!

And Einstein might have started with a question, but it was an educated one based on the problems of the day - he didn't wake up one morning and go "I wonder if light likes to play silly buggers with the laws of physics".

Actually, if i remember correctly, he drew his inspiration from many things, including the natural world..as pointed out earlier the scientific world is constantly shifting fact/truth and the laws of physics as we know them are immutable, right?..however, there are always exceptions..
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