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Author Topic: How To Heal A Divided Nation  (Read 6130 times)
Morgaine
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« Reply #15: October 31, 2008, 07:16:19 pm »

While there may be some tremendous argument on the subject of abortion, I can't see a civil war breaking out over it.  Individual incidents potentially involving injury or death?  Yes, that happens.  But I don't see signs of the US as a whole picking up arms and hacking each other to bits.

I didn't start the subject of abortion; I only responded.  It is merely one issue representative of our divides and they are many.  The reality is that we are divided deeply and I guess complacency really isn't my forte.  I actually started the thread to see if anyone had actually thought about the same things I have or any ways to bring our country back together. 

Splitting hairs and wasting time isn't on my agenda.  Have a great weekend.  Wink
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Armagh444
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« Reply #16: October 31, 2008, 07:22:42 pm »

His point is that GOP legislators couldn't advocate for banning abortion anymore; their constituents would boot them out. It's easy for them to advocate for it when they know the Supreme Court will overturn their restrictions. If it were a legislative issue, facing an electorate that's nearly 3/4 agreed on the idea of "safe, legal, and rare," it would be total political suicide to advocate for banning abortion, and many GOP politicians who pander to the extreme right would have to get real moderate on the issue real fast, and it would take away most of the most public hardline pro-life discussion.

I can't agree with you on this one.  If Roe were to be overturned (a mere formality, but an important symbolic one nonetheless) it would take less than a week for Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, and Oklahoma to outlaw all abortions in all cases, and there wouldn't be a peep from the electorate.
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« Reply #17: October 31, 2008, 07:25:07 pm »

I have been with several young women having abortions.  Not one single one of them considered it to be an experience they cared to repeat.  It is invasive, painful, stigmatized and emotionally injurious. 

Not in all cases.  I know quite a few women who have had abortions who have never suffered a qualm over it.

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Three things from which never to be moved: one's Oaths, one's Gods, and the Truth. The three highest causes of the true human are: Truth, Honor, and Duty. Three candles that illuminate every darkness: Truth, Nature, and Knowledge.
OpenHands
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« Reply #18: October 31, 2008, 09:37:06 pm »

Has anyone else considered what each of us can do to Heal our Nation's divide?
Is there a way to come through this as Americans in a strong and united manner?


I think you underestimate the strength of this country and our ability to deal with the divisive issues at hand.  As Everfool said, people have always been at odds over a variety of issues and that's where voting and legislation come in.  Despite the heated election, I think most Americans are in agreement in a number of areas- especially in regards to some change needed for the Iraq war, healthcare system and economy.  We disagree about how to go about it, but that's why folks are voting.  Smiley

Also, I'm going to get into some "hair splitting" and "time wasting" regarding the topic that has grown out of the larger discussion.  I think the polarized view many Americans take when it comes to abortion is largely cultural and it will be a long time before we see any change in that attitude.  If it ever does change. 

And speaking as someone who has dealt with the topic on a personal level as well, I found pregnancy to be more "emotionally injurous" than my abortion.  After the procedure I felt an immediate sense of relief and overwhelming gratitude that I had legal access to a safe method.  Reactions are as different as the women who choose to have abortions.  *shrugs*  Definitely agree that women don't go happily skipping into clinics like some pro-lifers would have us believe.  It's no picnic, no matter how you feel about the procedure.

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sailor_tech
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« Reply #19: October 31, 2008, 11:11:35 pm »

While there may be some tremendous argument on the subject of abortion, I can't see a civil war breaking out over it.  Individual incidents potentially involving injury or death?  Yes, that happens.  But I don't see signs of the US as a whole picking up arms and hacking each other to bits.

No, but it could be the spark, well in the story almost anything could have been the final spark.

http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743471709/0743471709.htm?blurb

A State of Disobediance  The State of Texas starts the second American civil war or revolution.
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EverFool
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« Reply #20: November 01, 2008, 05:33:46 am »

No, but it could be the spark, well in the story almost anything could have been the final spark.

http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743471709/0743471709.htm?blurb

A State of Disobediance  The State of Texas starts the second American civil war or revolution.

Umm...work of fiction.  That's all very interesting, but if someone wants to suggest that abortion will trigger a civil war, I'd rather see something along the line of newspaper and journal articles.
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Koimichra
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« Reply #21: November 01, 2008, 08:47:00 am »

I can't agree with you on this one.  If Roe were to be overturned (a mere formality, but an important symbolic one nonetheless) it would take less than a week for Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, and Oklahoma to outlaw all abortions in all cases, and there wouldn't be a peep from the electorate.

Well, statistics show nearly 75% of the electorate in all those states are in favor of safe, legal, and rare ... just like in the rest of the country. The electorate would throw the bums out pretty darn quickly, even if social pressure created a sort of "Bradley effect" where they weren't willing to say openly to their neighbors that they felt the politicians banning it were out of line. They'd still say it in the privacy of the voting booth.

For that matter, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if particular states did outlaw abortion. That's part of the point of states, to experiment with different kinds of laws so the other 49 can watch and take notes. What states that outlawed it would discover is that the RATE of abortions doesn't go down very much when they're outlawed; abortions occur at basically the same rate but they occur a) illegally and b) across the border. Texas and Georgia would also discover that it would become more difficult to draw highly educated professionals to Austin and Atlanta for their high-tech sectors, because highly educated professionals have the luxury to choose location partly based on culture (including politics) in the location they're moving to. (Altho you'd probably have to wait for the economy to pick up a bit.) Alabama would discover a similar issue with its excellent colleges. And having legal abortions available across the border has typically helped push countries to legalize abortion within their borders.

It would kind-of suck if you lived in south Texas, but living in Alabama it wouldn't be that long a drive to the next state over.
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Koimichra
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« Reply #22: November 01, 2008, 08:52:21 am »

If Roe were to be overturned (a mere formality, but an important symbolic one nonetheless)

Also, you can't overturn a case in a "formality" ... it's already been "overturned" or "overwritten" a dozen times and more and nobody seems to have even particularly noticed.

The legislature can't overturn case law, and the courts have already overturned it, so I'm not sure where this formality is supposed to come from, anyway. Reading a proclamation on the steps of the Supreme Court so people will notice PP v. Casey happened 16 years ago?
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RandallS
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« Reply #23: November 01, 2008, 11:23:15 am »

For that matter, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if particular states did outlaw abortion.

It would be if they tried to ban woman from leaving the state for an abortion without getting all sorts of permissions from the father (even if he is unknown), parents, etc.  And you know some states would try.  Even if the law was unconstitutional, a lot of people would be hurt by it while it was being found over for years in the slow court system.
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Koimichra
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« Reply #24: November 01, 2008, 12:39:36 pm »

It would be if they tried to ban woman from leaving the state for an abortion without getting all sorts of permissions from the father (even if he is unknown), parents, etc.  And you know some states would try.  Even if the law was unconstitutional, a lot of people would be hurt by it while it was being found over for years in the slow court system.

I don't think any states would try. It's not like international travel; there's no border control, you don't need papers, and states have absolutely zero authority to stop anyone but criminals and illegally-transported minors from crossing state lines. That would be BEYOND absurd.

Texas couldn't even get the Democrats back when they hid in Oklahoma!
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LyricFox
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« Reply #25: November 01, 2008, 12:44:50 pm »

It would be if they tried to ban woman from leaving the state for an abortion without getting all sorts of permissions from the father (even if he is unknown), parents, etc.  And you know some states would try.  Even if the law was unconstitutional, a lot of people would be hurt by it while it was being found over for years in the slow court system.

It would also be horrendous for women who can't afford to travel out of state. And in some cases, it wouldn't be as simple as crossing into the next state, but a woman could be forced to travel over multiple state lines.

I am completely against this whole idea. The waiting periods can be onerous enough if you're poor. Being forced to travel several hundred miles would be worse.
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