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Author Topic: What if we're wrong?  (Read 29976 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #90: March 22, 2011, 06:55:51 am »

  On the other hand, if you're going to argue that an ultimate state can exist in spite of doubt, then please explain your idea.

well, standard Catholic belief is that post-death you get one last chance to experience what God really is, without blinders or life getting in the way, and you get to make your choice to embrace or reject /there/.

At that point, faith is irrelevant because there is simply reality.  Your doubt doesn't get in the way at all.
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« Reply #91: March 22, 2011, 07:18:17 am »

...Ellen said that faith needs doubt, and I said that the ultimate attainment would be impossible to reach through faith if that were true.
...My implied argument to her was that faith does not need doubt, and that in order to reach the ultimate attainment one must destroy doubt at some point...

Have you considered the idea that faith alone may be necessary, but not sufficient for the attainment that you are talking about? Perhaps it is through the addition of doubt that a degree of focus and understanding is engendered that (together with faith) is sufficient unto the end. Doubt certainly seems to cause people to assess and explore their faith in ways that may not arise in its absence. I'm not sure if that is what Ellen is talking about, but it could be worth mulling over. As always, YMMV.
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« Reply #92: March 22, 2011, 08:07:20 am »

  Yeah, Ellen said that faith needs doubt, and I said that the ultimate attainment would be impossible to reach through faith if that were true.

Why do you think that?
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« Reply #93: March 22, 2011, 08:13:27 am »

So, next?  What if you're wrong?

Look upon the sunbeam reflecting from the wall.  Is it not an act of beauty?

Listen to the birds singing outside the window.  Is this not an act of beauty?

I choose in this moment to observe these things, and revel in them.  This is my transcendence.  This is my Nirvana.

In this moment, what is right or wrong?

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« Reply #94: March 22, 2011, 11:10:20 am »

well, standard Catholic belief is that post-death you get one last chance to experience what God really is, without blinders or life getting in the way, and you get to make your choice to embrace or reject /there/.

At that point, faith is irrelevant because there is simply reality.  Your doubt doesn't get in the way at all.

  That's interesting theology.  Thank you.   Cheesy  Is there doubt in eternal Catholic heaven?
Why do you think that?


  In my view, doubt is the second of several fetters that must be destroyed in the process of attaining the ultimate.  In a sense, this would mean that faith is solidified or virtually ensured after the destruction of doubt.
  However I should have clarified.  In this context the ultimate attainment is in the mind, but in many religions this is not the case.
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« Reply #95: April 26, 2011, 07:44:59 pm »

It's one of those questions that always gets asked by people trying to convert - what if you're wrong.

This isn't an attempt to convert, just a thought-game.  Take a good long look at your religious beliefs - and ask.

What if you're wrong?  What would change?  What wouldn't change?  Can you accept the doubt, or is doubt the enemy?

**

Personally, nothing would really change.  I'd probably change the tone of my essays to a more atheistic standpoint - OTOH, mine pretty much come across that way anyway.  I'd still live my life much the same way - I'd be a little bugged by Apollo giving me tasks, but even that I'd do what I used to do - chalk it up to some other part of my psyche and go with it.  (what astonishes me is that He put up with that ...)

So, next?  What if you're wrong?


Being wrong about heathenry wouldn't change much for me. Luckily the beliefs tend to be more about life rather than afterlife, so I wouldn't miss out on much. There's the idea that everything every single one of my ancestors has done has created me- it's one life story and I'm playing my part in it. Everything I do will influence what my descendants do and their life will be a continuation of the story I told. What comes after-meh- not important. Smiley
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« Reply #96: May 15, 2011, 10:15:14 pm »



What if you're wrong?  What would change?  What wouldn't change?  Can you accept the doubt, or is doubt the enemy?



Douglas Adams' books had me asking myself this question a while back for the first time in a less serious way than I had previously. It was lovely to finally be able to think about the concept with more whimsy than gravity. 

I've come to this so far: I probably am wrong. Or at least not completely correct. I'm okay with it. I'm used to it actually, so nothing much would change. However, if I was right without a doubt, good gravy, I'd be astonished. I'd also be a bit disappointed because being right isn't all that great for me. It's not interesting. There's nothing left to explore when doubt is removed. Like reaching a dead end. I may love doubt. There is so much of possibility in it. Doubt provides no dead ends but bends to go around and explore/learn.

Doubt and possibility. Perhaps they are the same coin.





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« Reply #97: May 17, 2011, 02:24:25 pm »

I've come to this so far: I probably am wrong. Or at least not completely correct. I'm okay with it. I'm used to it actually, so nothing much would change.

I'm liking this.

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