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Author Topic: The Book of Shadows.  (Read 12987 times)
Zanshin
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« Reply #15: April 16, 2007, 06:38:56 pm »

Amazing. You don't read rules well, do you.

That seems a little rough. I've only been here 5 days, and it's the first site I've known where there was an actual rule about quoting a post to which one is replying. If I missed an unusual rule, then I apologise, but I don't think it calls for any insults or warnings. Simply directing me to the rule in question would have been entirely sufficient.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 06:40:37 pm by Zanshin » Logged

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« Reply #16: April 16, 2007, 06:42:38 pm »

That seems a little rough. I've only been here 5 days, and it's the first site I've known where there was an actual rule about quoting a post to which one is replying. If I missed an unusual rule, then I apologise, but I don't think it calls for any abuse. Simply directing me to the rule in question would have been entirely sufficient.

Zanshin,

Sorry you feel that way, but you were sent a copy of the rules when you signed up to post on this forum. You're not being abused. You're being told to read the rules and to follow them. You're being told to quote posts that you're replying to because threads can be difficult to follow without those quotes.

Randall told you to read the rules. Heartshadow told you to read the rules. I'm telling you to read the rules.

Since you've apparently not bothered to read them before, I'd suggest again that you do so.
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Zanshin
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« Reply #17: April 16, 2007, 06:46:04 pm »

You're not being abused. You're being told to read the rules and to follow them.
Since you've apparently not bothered to read them before, I'd suggest again that you do so.

I'm also being told I don't read rules very well, and issued with a warning. In my book, newbies get a bit of slack for missing a rule in the first few days. I did read them, and obviously missed one. Fine, no big deal, is it, really?
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RandallS
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« Reply #18: April 16, 2007, 06:50:21 pm »

I'm also being told I don't read rules very well, and issued with a warning. In my book, newbies get a bit of slack for missing a rule in the first few days. I did read them, and obviously missed one. Fine, no big deal, is it, really?


HOST HAT ONYou problem isn't that you just missed a rule. The problem is that you are publicly arguing mod calls.  You are gagged for a week. This will give you a chance to carefully read our rules and learn who the Hosts are.
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violentsound
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« Reply #19: April 17, 2007, 12:23:04 pm »

Quote
Where did the 'conversation' originally come from? Any idea? Greenfield presents it as a load of nonsense as well, but he doesn't give the source, or I didn't notice it if he did.

I assumed he just wrote the 'conversation' for laughs. I mean, the inspiration is obviously the "how much of Crowley did Gardner nick?" debate you've been discussing but I doubt Greenfield actually came across a transcript of those two actually having tea together. The conversation - I think anyway - was simply used as a humourous introduction to the article. I like it because it manages to poke fun at both of the old geezers, and also at anyone who would take the whole issue with deadly seriousness.

(And yes, I'm aware you're gagged but you can still read posts, so I'm replying anyway.)

- N
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« Reply #20: April 17, 2007, 01:53:59 pm »

I assumed he just wrote the 'conversation' for laughs. I mean, the inspiration is obviously the "how much of Crowley did Gardner nick?" debate you've been discussing but I doubt Greenfield actually came across a transcript of those two actually having tea together. The conversation - I think anyway - was simply used as a humourous introduction to the article. I like it because it manages to poke fun at both of the old geezers, and also at anyone who would take the whole issue with deadly seriousness.

(And yes, I'm aware you're gagged but you can still read posts, so I'm replying anyway.)

- N

Violentsound, can you please use the actual quote button, and not just the quote code?

We want the link to the post you're replying to a lot more than the text of the reply.  thanks. Smiley
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violentsound
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« Reply #21: April 18, 2007, 11:22:22 am »

Violentsound, can you please use the actual quote button, and not just the quote code?

We want the link to the post you're replying to a lot more than the text of the reply.  thanks. Smiley

Ooops, sorry!

- N
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Fausta
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« Reply #22: May 18, 2007, 05:38:05 pm »

There is really little evidence to support the belief and quite a bit of evidence against it. An example of the latter, Gardner's "Book of Shadows" was an ever changing work -- it grew and changed over 10-15 years and incorporated material from others in his group.

I got in this thread a "bit" late, but here goes anyway...

Having Crowley's material and ideas as source material was not difficult at the time and AFAIK, Gardner's material includes stuff that Crowley would not been that interested in (for example folk magic, mythology of the British Isles, Margaret Murray's theories, Leland's Aradia etc) to begin with as they weren't integral or essential to Thelema. Crowley's interest was in furthering one religion: his own. Helping to create a "competitor" wouldn't be serving that higher purpose of his, now would it?

Furthermore, while it can be a rather funny thought that Crowley - the "hugely evil man I'd NEVER read anything of!" which is what some mostly Neo-Wiccans have told me many times over - was the true origins of their religious ideas, it isn't really in character for Crowley to write the basics of somebody else's religion.

Besides, if Crowley had written the original Gardnerian BOS, would he really have been quiet about it? He was keen on toting his horn and "I wrote the holy books of a religion for fun" would have quite likely indeed been something he would have bragged about. In my opinion, that's another not-in-character flaw in the "Crowley wrote it" theory.

He would also have left documentation of the process in his diaries, had he written the BOS. To put it shortly: I very strongly suspect that had he written it instead of just been an influence, we wouldn't be speculating on the matter, we'd know.

(Oh, and "Crowleyan" tends to be taken as a bit pejorative term, "Thelemite" works. Smiley )
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 10:05:42 am by Fausta, Reason: Removed two floating words of the last paragraph in quite the wrong place. » Logged

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« Reply #23: May 18, 2007, 05:55:42 pm »

(Oh, and

Furthermore, while it can be a rather funny thought that Crowley - the "hugely evil man I'd NEVER read anything of!" which is what some mostly Neo-Wiccans have told me many times over - was the true origins of their religious ideas, it isn't really in character for Crowley to write the basics of somebody else's religion.

Besides, if Crowley had written the original Gardnerian BOS, would he really have been quiet about it? He was keen on toting his horn and "I wrote the holy books of a religion for fun"

hahaha I've not read the rest of the thread, but this post made me laugh, he did write a holy book for a giggle didn't he? Isn't that what the book of the law is all about Tongue
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Fausta
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« Reply #24: May 19, 2007, 10:43:20 am »

hahaha I've not read the rest of the thread, but this post made me laugh, he did write a holy book for a giggle didn't he? Isn't that what the book of the law is all about Tongue

While Liber Al vel Legis is indeed one of the holy books of Thelema, it being "all about" having been written "for a giggle" is a claim you need to produce evidence for.
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