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Author Topic: Another School Shooting- 30 Confirmed Dead  (Read 17018 times)
Gwynyvyr
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« Reply #15: April 18, 2007, 12:05:02 pm »

And an example of what happens when students DO have available firearms at a university...
 In 2003, almost the exact same thing happened there in Virginia at a different college, the Appalachian Law School. Peter Odighizuwa, a disgruntled student with a 380 pistol, killed two professors, then opened fire on students, shooting three of them.

But there was one key difference between the Va Tech episode and the Appalachian Law School episode which was almost completely ignored by the media: Whereas Virginia Tech specifically forbade students from having a firearm on campus, at Appalachian Law School, two students STOPPED THE ATTACK with personally owned firearms.

When they heard the gunfire, Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, two of Odighizuwa's fellow students, independently went to their vehicles, retrieved their personally owned firearms and stopped what could have become a massacre.

One of the most disgraceful facts of the whole affair is that out of the HUNDREDS of news stories about the attack, the number of stories that mentioned the defensive use of firearms that ended the attack could be counted on the fingers of one hand: Just three out of more than 200 stories in the media mentioned the defensive use of firearms.

For more, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/postsbyday/topic-appalachianlawschool.html

For those who wring their hands and say "two wrongs don't make a right," please note: The good guys didn't shoot the bad guy. But because they were armed, they were able to stop him. End of story.
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« Reply #16: April 18, 2007, 12:08:44 pm »



Gwyn,

I am simply not seeing the concealed carry law as a hot button issue. For the most part, I don't find Second Amendment issues that much of a topic.

However, you will not ever get me to agree that the idea of carrying a concealed weapon on a campus is a good thing. And yes, I think the people who are advocating everyone carrying a weapon are loons. Period.

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« Reply #17: April 18, 2007, 01:54:06 pm »

Gwyn,

I am simply not seeing the concealed carry law as a hot button issue. For the most part, I don't find Second Amendment issues that much of a topic.

However, you will not ever get me to agree that the idea of carrying a concealed weapon on a campus is a good thing. And yes, I think the people who are advocating everyone carrying a weapon are loons. Period.



Were everyone to have a gun, were no one to have a gun; there is always one person determined enough to find a way to take out as many people as they can.  If everyone had guns, the new choice would be bombs, or chemicals. 

If someone is determined to kill, they will think of ways around whatever obstacles they need to.

Seems like we're coming up against more and more people determined to kill.
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« Reply #18: April 18, 2007, 01:56:24 pm »

Were everyone to have a gun, were no one to have a gun; there is always one person determined enough to find a way to take out as many people as they can.  If everyone had guns, the new choice would be bombs, or chemicals. 

If someone is determined to kill, they will think of ways around whatever obstacles they need to.

Seems like we're coming up against more and more people determined to kill.

Or simply more people willing to kill those that we recognize as "safe".

Were the same thing to have happened as a gang shooting in an inner city, people wouldn't bat an eye.  Students in a classroom is something different.

What happened is awful no matter what, but how we view it also changes how horrifying it is.  If we view it as something completely out of context, it looks much worse than when you think of all the people that go on murderous rampages .. and get ignored, because they're "expected" to do so.
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Mandi
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« Reply #19: April 18, 2007, 01:56:48 pm »


It also bothers me that there were no locks on the classroom doors.


And then at the same time, in other cases we would be horrified to hear there were locks on classroom doors.

Then again, up against a gun, those little push button locks don't seem to mean much.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
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« Reply #20: April 18, 2007, 01:57:16 pm »

Were everyone to have a gun, were no one to have a gun; there is always one person determined enough to find a way to take out as many people as they can.  If everyone had guns, the new choice would be bombs, or chemicals. 

If someone is determined to kill, they will think of ways around whatever obstacles they need to.

Seems like we're coming up against more and more people determined to kill.

Mandi,

I think that's a very good point to keep in mind.
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« Reply #21: April 18, 2007, 02:07:31 pm »

Or simply more people willing to kill those that we recognize as "safe".

Were the same thing to have happened as a gang shooting in an inner city, people wouldn't bat an eye.  Students in a classroom is something different.

What happened is awful no matter what, but how we view it also changes how horrifying it is.  If we view it as something completely out of context, it looks much worse than when you think of all the people that go on murderous rampages .. and get ignored, because they're "expected" to do so.

32 people is a lot, no matter where.  I think maybe we could have justified it away more easily though someplace else.  Oh it was poverty, oh it was about drugs, turf, music - things we can link to easily observable conditions.

When it's someone who's source of hopelessness can't be so easily pinpointed, then it becomes something bigger. 
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
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« Reply #22: April 18, 2007, 05:28:06 pm »

Concealed carry is legal in Virginia. HOWEVER, the Virginia Tech campus forbids it, even to a legally licensed individual. Most Va college/university campuses forbid, although there are a few exceptions.
Most people in Va who get a concealed carry license have had firearms training.
(snip)

I've been talking on another list with a lawyer from Blacksburg and some other people. Good chance that the VT campus rule forbidding guns on campus in violation of state law is going to cost the school big time. Idea is that if there was anybody near the shooting, or a victim of the shooting that had a permit then VT is directly liable for preventing the attack from being stopped. Talk is millions of dollars.
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« Reply #23: April 18, 2007, 06:01:03 pm »

I am concerned that the gun-control nuts are going to jump on this as an excuse to put even more restrictions on private ownership of firearms.

I doubt this as getting meaningful gun control legislation through Congress is almost impossible. Calls for it yes. Actually happening, no.

Quote
It also bothers me that there were no locks on the classroom doors.

Unless the doors were steel, I doubt locks would have mattered. I can open the average locked wooden door with one shot -- and that's without practice.
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« Reply #24: April 18, 2007, 06:06:29 pm »

I doubt this as getting meaningful gun control legislation through Congress is almost impossible. Calls for it yes. Actually happening, no.

What I'm seeing on this is that the odds of any sort of legislation really even being brought up is pretty high. Lots of condemnation, but little actual legislation being considered.
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Gwynyvyr
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« Reply #25: April 18, 2007, 07:15:41 pm »

I've been talking on another list with a lawyer from Blacksburg and some other people. Good chance that the VT campus rule forbidding guns on campus in violation of state law is going to cost the school big time. Idea is that if there was anybody near the shooting, or a victim of the shooting that had a permit then VT is directly liable for preventing the attack from being stopped. Talk is millions of dollars.

I have been hearing the rumblings of this on some of my other forums as well.
And according to one online friend that lives in Blacksburg, there was at least one police officer (off-duty) who was there, but accordingly NOT carrying a firearm as he is a student there and there was no exception made for him. And the VT university police are armed with tasers and pepper spray, but I don't think they have firearms (not completely sure on that).

My boyfriend is in S Korea...he says this story is way huge there and S Koreans keep coming up to him and expressing great sorrow and making apologies for the young mans actions. He tells them that they are not responsible for Cho...he had lived most of his life in the US, so they shouldn't consider him a representative of the Korean people.
He called me about 10 minutes ago (it's Thursday morning there) and said the story is spreading there that Cho's parents committed suicide? I told him there is nothing here about that...He said the news there frequently broadcasts the slightest rumor as absolute true news...
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« Reply #26: April 18, 2007, 08:11:43 pm »

32 people is a lot, no matter where.  I think maybe we could have justified it away more easily though someplace else.  Oh it was poverty, oh it was about drugs, turf, music - things we can link to easily observable conditions.

When it's someone who's source of hopelessness can't be so easily pinpointed, then it becomes something bigger. 

(To ALL)

From his video sent to NBC:

Quote
"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," the 23-year-old gunman said angrily, in an excerpt shown on NBC Nightly News.

"But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off," Cho said.

"I didn't have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But now I will no longer run," the gunman said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6570241.stm

He blames his actions on others.  He blames their disease(s) for his actions.

Yet I say one should comfort the diseased; did anyone comfort him?  Did he bring his thoughts to those "diseased" that "caused" his actions?

This is a double-edged sword - with no one's hands clean of blood.

Perhaps some will learn.
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« Reply #27: April 18, 2007, 10:55:58 pm »

My boyfriend is in S Korea...he says this story is way huge there and S Koreans keep coming up to him and expressing great sorrow and making apologies for the young mans actions. He tells them that they are not responsible for Cho...he had lived most of his life in the US, so they shouldn't consider him a representative of the Korean people.

He's had here most of his life. I sure don't see that the Koreans have anything to apologize for.
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« Reply #28: April 18, 2007, 10:58:01 pm »

From his video sent to NBC:

What I saw of that was just plain weird. The guy did not make much sense -- and I understand that the printed message may make even less sense. I suspect there were some real problems in his head.
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« Reply #29: April 18, 2007, 11:38:48 pm »

My boyfriend is in S Korea...he says this story is way huge there and S Koreans keep coming up to him and expressing great sorrow and making apologies for the young mans actions. He tells them that they are not responsible for Cho...he had lived most of his life in the US, so they shouldn't consider him a representative of the Korean people.

Yeah, I'm getting a lot of this too.  The news here is talking up some kind of backlash against Korean-Americans; I've been trying to reassure people that that's totally overblown.

Quote
He called me about 10 minutes ago (it's Thursday morning there) and said the story is spreading there that Cho's parents committed suicide? I told him there is nothing here about that...He said the news there frequently broadcasts the slightest rumor as absolute true news...

Chosunilbo reported on that, though they did mention it was a rumor.  I wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets were reporting it as plain fact, considering that they also seriously report cases of "fan death" every summer.  This is the relevant bit of CI's piece:

Korean-American Among Victims of Virginia Massacre

[...]

Meanwhile, the father of Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-hui reportedly committed suicide. Radio Korea, a broadcaster for Korean expatriates in Los Angeles, said rumors spread in Virginia’s Korean community that the killer’s father slashed a main artery with a knife after learning that his son was identified as the gunman in the shooting massacre. The shooter’s mother also tried to kill herself but failed and is in critical condition, the broadcaster added.

I looked up Radio Korea, but their site is only in Korean, so I couldn't check out the original story.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 11:43:38 pm by Beachglass, Reason: Spelling » Logged

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