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Author Topic: Another School Shooting- 30 Confirmed Dead  (Read 17019 times)
WarHorse
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« Reply #30: April 19, 2007, 06:46:33 am »

Chosunilbo reported on that, though they did mention it was a rumor.  I wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets were reporting it as plain fact, considering that they also seriously report cases of "fan death" every summer.  This is the relevant bit of CI's piece:

I looked up Radio Korea, but their site is only in Korean, so I couldn't check out the original story.

There is a contradiction in an Australian paper, thankfully:

Quote
THE parents of Cho Seung-hi were taken to hospital in shock, according to a Korean media report.
However, they had not attempted suicide, contrary to other stories in that country.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21582848-952,00.html

The "fan death" thing is weird.
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« Reply #31: April 19, 2007, 09:03:08 am »


Chosunilbo reported on that, though they did mention it was a rumor.  I wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets were reporting it as plain fact, considering that they also seriously report cases of "fan death" every summer.  This is the relevant bit of CI's piece:

I looked up Radio Korea, but their site is only in Korean, so I couldn't check out the original story.

Apparently the rumor is just a rumor. I've seen a couple of links putting that one to rest, so I suspect it will get over there eventually.
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« Reply #32: April 20, 2007, 01:47:28 pm »

Gwyn,

I am simply not seeing the concealed carry law as a hot button issue. For the most part, I don't find Second Amendment issues that much of a topic.

However, you will not ever get me to agree that the idea of carrying a concealed weapon on a campus is a good thing. And yes, I think the people who are advocating everyone carrying a weapon are loons. Period.



Well, then that breaks people down into three categories for me: Evildoers, Willfully defenseless potential victims, and the Loons who take it upon themselves to try and defend the victims from the Evildoors.

I'm a Loon.
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« Reply #33: April 20, 2007, 02:03:11 pm »

Well, then that breaks people down into three categories for me: Evildoers, Willfully defenseless potential victims, and the Loons who take it upon themselves to try and defend the victims from the Evildoors.

I'm a Loon.

Bob,

I guess if that's what you want to be. I'm not anti-gun and I'm not anti-concealed carry, but I also think that there is a time and a place for all things, and a college campus is not the place for guns.

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« Reply #34: April 20, 2007, 02:16:45 pm »

Sure it's not. That's why Cho had two and used them to mass-murder his fellow academics with no one able to do a damned thing about it in any reasonable fashion.

One prof or student with a defensive weapon could potentially have nipped that rampage in the bud. And there's nothing you or anyone else can say that will change that fact.
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« Reply #35: April 20, 2007, 02:25:33 pm »

One prof or student with a defensive weapon could potentially have nipped that rampage in the bud. And there's nothing you or anyone else can say that will change that fact.

Right, but that doesn't mean everyone needs a gun...  (Or wants one.)

I guess I'm a little confused here, because I saw Lyric talking about "everyone carrying a weapon" and I'm seeing you talking about some people, presumably qualified and having passed the appropriate safety training and whatever, carrying a weapon.  Not just any random person, and not every single person.  So I'm not seeing where the conflict is.

Of course, I also haven't been keeping up terribly well with the media coverage, so I'm a little unclear as to what's being advocated in the first place.
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« Reply #36: April 20, 2007, 02:27:32 pm »

One prof or student with a defensive weapon could potentially have nipped that rampage in the bud. And there's nothing you or anyone else can say that will change that fact.

Nor will anything you say change the fact that if all the students and teachers carried a gun that there wouldn't be more shootings periodically because some student gets pissed at his girlfriend or a teacher or has too much beer at a keg party.

That's the problem I have with this "solution." It ignores the fact that students could be killed at other times because someone gets pissed off and decides that killing a person is the way to go.
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« Reply #37: April 20, 2007, 03:23:18 pm »

I'm a Loon.

Well, of course there have to be some loons wondering the grey mists making those spooky noises...*wonders over to the Loon corner*

Quote
Nor will anything you say change the fact that if all the students and teachers carried a gun that there wouldn't be more shootings periodically because some student gets pissed at his girlfriend or a teacher or has too much beer at a keg party.

That's the problem I have with this "solution." It ignores the fact that students could be killed at other times because someone gets pissed off and decides that killing a person is the way to go

Actually, it isn't a fact that there would be more shootings. Appalachian Law School allowed firearms on campus...and until that one guy shot the two professors, had no shootings. (None since, either)
Here's a whole town where all head of households are REQUIRED to own and maintain firearms.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

Look...there are going to be arguments on both sides of this coin, and I know you'll never be convinced if you are dead set against concealed carry or handguns or firearm ownership in the private sector, whatever. Nor will I ever be convinced that only LEO and military should be allowed to have firearms.
One of those *polarity* issues...

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« Reply #38: April 20, 2007, 03:35:11 pm »

Well, of course there have to be some loons wondering the grey mists making those spooky noises...*wonders over to the Loon corner*

Actually, it isn't a fact that there would be more shootings. Appalachian Law School allowed firearms on campus...and until that one guy shot the two professors, had no shootings. (None since, either)
Here's a whole town where all head of households are REQUIRED to own and maintain firearms.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

Look...there are going to be arguments on both sides of this coin, and I know you'll never be convinced if you are dead set against concealed carry or handguns or firearm ownership in the private sector, whatever. Nor will I ever be convinced that only LEO and military should be allowed to have firearms.
One of those *polarity* issues...



Gwyn,

I've no idea how long you've been on this board, but I know it's several years. I can't believe you've quoted Worldnet Daily as a source. You know that's a source that ranks right up there with Wikipedia for "proof."

Sorry, but that's just not going to fly.
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« Reply #39: April 20, 2007, 03:42:07 pm »

Actually, it isn't a fact that there would be more shootings. Appalachian Law School allowed firearms on campus...and until that one guy shot the two professors, had no shootings. (None since, either)

Which does not prove anything about an "everyone should carry weapons" position. Nor does it demonstrate that if everyone did that no one would wrongfully use them. Smiley

Quote
Here's a whole town where all head of households are REQUIRED to own and maintain firearms.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

World Net Daily? Sorry, Gwen. That ranks right up there with Wikipedia and Fox News for accuracy.

Quote
Look...there are going to be arguments on both sides of this coin, and I know you'll never be convinced if you are dead set against concealed carry or handguns or firearm ownership in the private sector, whatever. Nor will I ever be convinced that only LEO and military should be allowed to have firearms.

I don't think that's Lyric's position. Her position seems to be that there are places were everyone carrying a weapon is a bad idea. That's why, for example, Texas Law on concealed carry prohibits carrying weapons in places like government buildings, places were alcohol is sold, etc. -- and allows any business to prohibit them on their premises.
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« Reply #40: April 20, 2007, 03:45:00 pm »

I don't think that's Lyric's position. Her position seems to be that there are places were everyone carrying a weapon is a bad idea. That's why, for example, Texas Law on concealed carry prohibits carrying weapons in places like government buildings, places were alcohol is sold, etc. -- and allows any business to prohibit them on their premises.


It's definitely not Lyric's position. I'm not sure how it got skewed so that it was. My position is just that there are places carrying a gun is a VERY BAD IDEA. I'm also not a big fan of automatic or semi-automatic weapons in the private sector.

Other than that, I don't have much of an opinion on it.
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« Reply #41: April 20, 2007, 04:00:55 pm »

I'm not saying everyone should carry either. People who are qualified and trained (like for what is required for a New Mexico concealed carry permit, f'rex) should be allowed to carry.

Bars, no. That's inviting trouble. Guns and hooch don't mix. I think everyone with a modicum of common sense recognizes that. But a college campus, where the vast majority of people with legitimate business on campus are adults? They should have the right to carry a firearm, provided they are willing to go through the training and certification process just like everyone else.

The very idea of declaring an entire, extended area as a 'gun free zone' for no other reason than a political ploy I find repugnant, particularly when it leads to a massacre of innocent people that could and SHOULD have been avoided. Cho was ALREADY in violation of that little 'gun free zone'. All the declaration did was ensure that those who were interested in abiding by the regulations would be unarmed and defenseless. It did nothing to stop a madman from doing what he did.
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« Reply #42: April 20, 2007, 04:10:49 pm »

I'm not saying everyone should carry either. People who are qualified and trained (like for what is required for a New Mexico concealed carry permit, f'rex) should be allowed to carry.

Bars, no. That's inviting trouble. Guns and hooch don't mix. I think everyone with a modicum of common sense recognizes that. But a college campus, where the vast majority of people with legitimate business on campus are adults? They should have the right to carry a firearm, provided they are willing to go through the training and certification process just like everyone else.

The very idea of declaring an entire, extended area as a 'gun free zone' for no other reason than a political ploy I find repugnant, particularly when it leads to a massacre of innocent people that could and SHOULD have been avoided. Cho was ALREADY in violation of that little 'gun free zone'. All the declaration did was ensure that those who were interested in abiding by the regulations would be unarmed and defenseless. It did nothing to stop a madman from doing what he did.

I'm not sure how it's a political ploy. Maybe you've read something that I haven't, and that's always possible.

Actually, from what I've read, Cho's possession was a bit more problematic than just having the gun on campus. Apparently he should never have been allowed to purchase one in the first place because of an adjudication of his mental state when he was stalking two women. I think that is probably the most important part to look at...that somehow a loophole was taken advantage of and his status went unreported.
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« Reply #43: April 20, 2007, 05:25:30 pm »

Gwyn,

I've no idea how long you've been on this board, but I know it's several years. I can't believe you've quoted Worldnet Daily as a source. You know that's a source that ranks right up there with Wikipedia for "proof."

Sorry, but that's just not going to fly.

Worldnet may not be a reliable source, but I think the town's website and ordinances are.

Quote
ARTICLE I. IN GENERAL

Sec. 34-1. Heads of households to maintain firearms.
(a)   In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefor.
(b)   Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.
(Code 1986, ยง 4-3-10)

Found in the Kennesaw, Georgia Codes of Ordinance.
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« Reply #44: April 20, 2007, 05:42:04 pm »

Worldnet may not be a reliable source, but I think the town's website and ordinances are.

Found in the Kennesaw, Georgia Codes of Ordinance.

Right. But I don't think the town's ordinances really prove much...except that the town has those requirements.
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