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Author Topic: Another School Shooting- 30 Confirmed Dead  (Read 17023 times)
Inca
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« Reply #60: April 23, 2007, 05:34:49 pm »

As Chabas, I am Dutch. I have spend one year attending High School in VA, and a lot of my classmates were planning on going to VTech after graduation.
I was amazed (and slightly frightened) at the availability of guns. A 14-year old schoolmate could go out and shoot (cans and animals, gladly, but still), and just tell it on the bus...
Also I have witnessed a lot of extremely stupid behaviour from high school seniors and college students (usually drunk or on drugs). I won't say noone in Holland does those things Cheesy 18-year-olds can be irresponsible and stupid all the way around. It's just that a teen 'under the influence' with a bike and fists has a limitation on the damage it can do, compared to students with cars and guns.

I would NOT want those students near guns. Accidents will happen (and yes, the number of fatal accidents or seriously hurt by accidental gun shots are quite high in VA and other places with easy gun access). It might feel comforting and safe but a gun fired by accident or in a sudden rage, when a person feels threatened but isn't, or in situations that grow out of hand when a gun is present, can be just as fatal. And those types of accidents or escalated fights might account for many more deaths than one such an incident.

They don't attract as much attention, but the victims still die.

I don't think those individuals will kill regardless. In many cases the availability will shape the thoughts too (I once again refer to "The Social Animal" for some thoughts on it). I think that is a factor much underestimated, but it has been proven and it does happen.
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« Reply #61: April 24, 2007, 03:08:51 pm »

Well, NOWHERE in the U.S. is it legal for a 14 year old teenager to possess a firearm. They're allowed to go hunting or target shooting with adult supervision, but they are not supposed to own or carry one until they have reached the age of majority.
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« Reply #62: April 26, 2007, 03:50:32 am »


Well, NOWHERE in the U.S. is it legal for a 14 year old teenager to possess a firearm.

I thought you could own a hunting rifle at 12, just that an adult had to buy it for you and you're not allowed to run around w/it by yourself.  And I was under the impression that you had to take a gun safety course, too, if you're under 18.  But I could easily be wrong.

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« Reply #63: April 26, 2007, 09:35:24 am »

Whereas I know lots of people who own guns -- of course, I live in a part of the US where gun ownership is common. I expect there to be a gun in most houses.

Given that most of our mass shootings in school have be preplanned attacks by fairly bright people, I suspect that they might kill as many people if they did not have access to guns as bombs are easy to make and there are lots of interesting chemicals that produce nasty effects in the average high school chemistry lab.


A trip to the hardware store holds an absolute buffet of options for someone up to no good, and many of the items that could be turned into dangerous things can be bought by a teen. 

We would have to have the same list for boarding planes after 9-11 regulating substances on campuses, or other public places in order to 'assure' safety and reduce the potential for this sort of thing to happen - and even though it's become more common, it's still far from a common thing.

No nail files, no ball bearings, no processed lunch meat, spaghetti sauce or fish by products, no shoes with high heels, no yard waste, no windex, no nail polish remover, no jello...

I'm being sort of funny, but even these things could be used to cause harm by someone who was determined.  We would have to outlaw everything in the known world practically.
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« Reply #64: April 26, 2007, 09:39:31 am »

A trip to the hardware store holds an absolute buffet of options for someone up to no good, and many of the items that could be turned into dangerous things can be bought by a teen. 



Just think McGyver in a hardware store. Sheesh. Guy could make something out of WD-40 and duct tape.
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« Reply #65: April 26, 2007, 06:12:42 pm »

No nail files, no ball bearings, no processed lunch meat, spaghetti sauce or fish by products, no shoes with high heels, no yard waste, no windex, no nail polish remover, no jello...

No pencils or pens as they can be used to stab someone. No keys as they can be used to slash someone or to poke an eye out. No heavy books as they could be used to bash someone with. No paper as it can cause paper cuts or be folded into a form that could poke an eye out.

Many common everyday objects make fair weapons.
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« Reply #66: April 26, 2007, 06:24:47 pm »

No pencils or pens as they can be used to stab someone. No keys as they can be used to slash someone or to poke an eye out. No heavy books as they could be used to bash someone with. No paper as it can cause paper cuts or be folded into a form that could poke an eye out.

Many common everyday objects make fair weapons.

That reminds me of when the airline wanted to take away my crochet hook because "it might be a weapon" (you can't stab YOURSELF with the damn thing.  I tried).  It was all I could do to NOT go through all the other things I had or was wearing that would be more dangerous, starting with my shoes .......
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« Reply #67: April 26, 2007, 07:15:51 pm »

No pencils or pens as they can be used to stab someone. No keys as they can be used to slash someone or to poke an eye out. No heavy books as they could be used to bash someone with. No paper as it can cause paper cuts or be folded into a form that could poke an eye out.

Many common everyday objects make fair weapons.

You really ought to read Shibumi sometime. Drinking straws. Seriously.
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« Reply #68: April 26, 2007, 08:18:13 pm »

(you can't stab YOURSELF with the damn thing.  I tried).

*snorts* why would you do that?
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« Reply #69: April 26, 2007, 08:49:06 pm »

*snorts* why would you do that?

curiosity.  I wanted to see if you actually COULD use the thing as a weapon.
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« Reply #70: April 27, 2007, 10:29:03 am »

I thought you could own a hunting rifle at 12, just that an adult had to buy it for you and you're not allowed to run around w/it by yourself.  And I was under the impression that you had to take a gun safety course, too, if you're under 18.  But I could easily be wrong.

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Well, in New Mexico, you are not allowed to own a firearm until 18 for rifles, 21 for handguns (I may be a little off, but not by much). you may of course USE a firearm, with adult supervision. Heck, the city of Albuquerque offers a hunter's safety course for youngsters every hunting season. But the child may not be the registered owner of record.
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« Reply #71: April 27, 2007, 11:44:40 am »

But the child may not be the registered owner of record.

Ah, that may well be the point of my confusion.

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« Reply #72: April 28, 2007, 11:19:50 am »

Well, in New Mexico, you are not allowed to own a firearm until 18 for rifles, 21 for handguns (I may be a little off, but not by much). you may of course USE a firearm, with adult supervision. Heck, the city of Albuquerque offers a hunter's safety course for youngsters every hunting season. But the child may not be the registered owner of record.

I have to back this up for Washington - I don't know the actual ages required, but as a single parent I was stuck going WITH my son to the shooting range - not just dropping him off.  They required that I was there at all times.  And these were only shotguns and rifles - not even registered to anyone, and given as a gift by my father (he bought them before I was born) when his Parkinson's got bad.  There is no owner of record for the firearms in my house - but they all see use....
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