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Author Topic: What is the common view on Satanism?  (Read 19293 times)
tampahitman
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« Reply #15: December 07, 2008, 07:09:33 pm »

No, i mean most christians and others believe it to be evil just because the word Satan is in it..
But, then again, some believe harry potter is evil...
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Lusiphelia
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« Reply #16: December 07, 2008, 07:28:09 pm »

The Temple of Set doesn't strike me as much more "evil" than the Church of Satan.
Funky.  Would never have occurred to me.

Ok, obviously poor word choice on my part.  I'd say more subversive instead but at this point prefer to just bow out.  Whereas I understand some of LaVey's concepts, generally it makes me roll my eyes and shrug, but I remember reading something of ToS' that was more  Shocked .  But, that was a while ago and I'm not really sure what it had been.  Either way, I apologize and withdraw my former statement.
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EverFool
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« Reply #17: December 08, 2008, 05:19:20 am »

No, i mean most christians and others believe it to be evil just because the word Satan is in it..
But, then again, some believe harry potter is evil...

I'm not seeing what your point is.  I thought you were asking us what *we* thought?  If you're asking 'do some people out there think its evil?' well, yes. You answered that yourself.  Just about everything is considered evil by *someone*
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« Reply #18: December 08, 2008, 11:00:21 am »

I'm not seeing what your point is.  I thought you were asking us what *we* thought?  If you're asking 'do some people out there think its evil?' well, yes. You answered that yourself.  Just about everything is considered evil by *someone*

I think the OP has just noticed a difference between the actual Satanist churches he's started to research and media and popular portrayals of Satanism, and was asking for a general opinion from TC.

Most Satanists don't spend their lives revelling in rape, murder, child molestation, torture, genocide, and other things that many consider evil.  There are Satanist churches that don't involve summoning demons, ever.

Does that mean that actual Satanist churches are or aren't evil?  That's an individual moral question.  I don't like the philosophies of any Satanist church I've read about or encountered. 

Betty

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« Reply #19: December 08, 2008, 01:38:09 pm »



Most Satanists don't spend their lives revelling in rape, murder, child molestation, torture, genocide, and other things that many consider evil.  There are Satanist churches that don't involve summoning demons, ever.
 
The only Satanists I ever knew told me they had summoned up demons and got extremely scared at what they had done. Why they could not get rid of them.So, they turned to the Christian religions for help, it helped some but not others,they were left to suffer with the demons wherever they went. I don't particularly know if Satanists and those who are demonology are the same.Never really thought about eclectic Satanists before.

 





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« Reply #20: December 08, 2008, 01:57:21 pm »

I think the OP has just noticed a difference between the actual Satanist churches he's started to research and media and popular portrayals of Satanism, and was asking for a general opinion from TC.

When someone says 'No, I mean...' I take it that we've focused on something other than what he meant, and is trying to redirect focus.

Quote
Most Satanists don't spend their lives revelling in rape, murder, child molestation, torture, genocide, and other things that many consider evil.  There are Satanist churches that don't involve summoning demons, ever.

Does that mean that actual Satanist churches are or aren't evil?  That's an individual moral question.

I haven't seen a single version of Satanism which involved revelling in those various acts.  The focus tends to be on the self and accepting various urges that more 'wholesome' religions look down upon.  Not even necessarily acting on those urges, but to accept them and take responsibility for them, rather than pretending.  I suppose that deciding whether those Satanic Churches is evil is an individual morality question, just like deciding if your religion, or any other is evil.


Quote
  I don't like the philosophies of any Satanist church I've read about or encountered. 

Betty

Does your not liking them make them evil?  There's plenty of things I don't like that I wouldn't class as evil.
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tampahitman
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« Reply #21: December 08, 2008, 05:49:41 pm »

I think the OP has just noticed a difference between the actual Satanist churches he's started to research and media and popular portrayals of Satanism, and was asking for a general opinion from TC.

Most Satanists don't spend their lives revelling in rape, murder, child molestation, torture, genocide, and other things that many consider evil.  There are Satanist churches that don't involve summoning demons, ever.

Does that mean that actual Satanist churches are or aren't evil?  That's an individual moral question.  I don't like the philosophies of any Satanist church I've read about or encountered. 

Betty



Thank you betty, that answered my question, and thank you for getting my point..
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Elisabette
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« Reply #22: December 09, 2008, 10:50:52 am »


Does your not liking them make them evil?  There's plenty of things I don't like that I wouldn't class as evil.


No, of course my not liking them doesn't make them evil.  While I have no problem judging actions or individuals, I don't like making sweeping statements about large groups and broad schools of thought, which is why I didn't say anything more than "I don't like Satanist philosophy." 

Betty

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Elisabette
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« Reply #23: December 09, 2008, 11:01:38 am »

I haven't seen a single version of Satanism which involved revelling in those various acts.  The focus tends to be on the self and accepting various urges that more 'wholesome' religions look down upon.  Not even necessarily acting on those urges, but to accept them and take responsibility for them, rather than pretending.  I suppose that deciding whether those Satanic Churches is evil is an individual morality question, just like deciding if your religion, or any other is evil.


Neither have I, but my being unaware of them doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist, which is the only reason I used the word "most" instead of "all."

Betty
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« Reply #24: December 09, 2008, 11:01:54 am »

No, of course my not liking them doesn't make them evil.  While I have no problem judging actions or individuals, I don't like making sweeping statements about large groups and broad schools of thought, which is why I didn't say anything more than "I don't like Satanist philosophy." 

Except...  It sounded like you were saying more than that.  I think the confusion here may arise from the way your answer was structured.  Here's the relevant paragraph:
Quote
Does that mean that actual Satanist churches are or aren't evil?  That's an individual moral question.  I don't like the philosophies of any Satanist church I've read about or encountered.  

You mention deciding whether they are or aren't evil, then say it's up to the individual, then say you don't like them.  When you put the "I don't like them" statement in the same breath as the idea that people have to decide for themselves whether Satanist churches are evil or not, and don't qualify it at all or separate it from your statement of dislike, it looks like you're linking your dislike to their being evil.

I see from your response that you hadn't intended to link those two things, but I hope you can see how the rest of us might have gotten a little confused on that point.  Wink
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« Reply #25: December 09, 2008, 11:11:35 am »

Neither have I, but my being unaware of them doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist, which is the only reason I used the word "most" instead of "all."

Betty

Fair enough.  Thank you for clarifying.  To help illustrate why I responded, I've copied and part of your post, but replaced 'Satanist' etc with 'Pagan' etc:

Most Pagans don't spend their lives revelling in rape, murder, child molestation, torture, genocide, and other things that many consider evil.  There are Pagan groups that don't involve summoning demons, ever.

Does that mean that actual Pagan groups are or aren't evil?  That's an individual moral question.  I don't like the philosophies of any Pagan group I've read about or encountered.

====
I appreciate now that you weren't condemning Satanists, but if I put it this way, can you see why I read it as I did?
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« Reply #26: December 09, 2008, 11:47:14 am »

I see from your response that you hadn't intended to link those two things, but I hope you can see how the rest of us might have gotten a little confused on that point.  Wink

You're right; I was thinking of them as separate statements, but I didn't express myself very well. 

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« Reply #27: December 09, 2008, 01:11:38 pm »


====
I appreciate now that you weren't condemning Satanists, but if I put it this way, can you see why I read it as I did?


Yes, I understand now.  I really wasn't trying to condemn Satanists, the point I was trying to express (very badly, I now realize) was that media and popular portrayals of Satanism are usually incorrect and it would be unjust to judge real Satanist churches based on these portrayals.

It's entirely possible that after researching the philosophies and practices of a particular Satanist church, a person could come to the conclusion that the church is evil.  Or he or she could decide that the church has a sensible way of looking at things that acknowledges the realities of life in a way that other religions don't. These would be individual moral decisions. 

The statement I made before, that I don't like Satanist philosophy, wasn't intended to answer the question of whether or not Satanist churches are evil, but I will try to answer it now.

I think, in my own judgment, that there is evil in Satanism, but there is evil in all religions, and where there are humans, there is the potential for evil. To provide some context, I regard evil as a thing in and of itself that must exist in symbiosis with human actions in order to be called "evil".  Satanism goes further in acknowledging and actively working with "thing in and of itself" part of evil than other religions, either through its philosophies or through magic, depending on the branch, but if evil also requires human action then Satanists are no more evil in effect than anyone else. 
 

I hope I haven't just muddied the waters more. 

Betty








 


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« Reply #28: December 09, 2008, 05:53:27 pm »

You're right; I was thinking of them as separate statements, but I didn't express myself very well. 
Whereas I was a little surprised when you were called on it, and had to go back and reread.  Turned out I'd automatically filled in the missing clause at the end of the last sentence:  "... but that's not the same as them being evil."

Sunflower
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« Reply #29: December 09, 2008, 08:32:27 pm »

Whereas I was a little surprised when you were called on it, and had to go back and reread.  Turned out I'd automatically filled in the missing clause at the end of the last sentence:  "... but that's not the same as them being evil."

Sunflower

Same, I read it as I believe it was intended.
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