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Author Topic: Unable to Tech-Connect?  (Read 4899 times)
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« Topic Start: December 09, 2008, 01:22:39 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?
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« Reply #1: December 09, 2008, 01:41:30 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

No, I must say it works just fine for me.

I've been to online circles and I've led online circles with nice and surprising results.
It is the perfect place that's not a place after all, isn't it Wink

Same for online card readings. I had some astonishing light bulb moments.
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« Reply #2: December 09, 2008, 01:50:38 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

I suspect there are quite a lot of people who don't feel that connection.  I also suspect that we get a higher concentration of people who do feel it here than you'd get at, say, an offline circle, just because of the nature of this place.  (Which is to say, because we are online.)
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« Reply #3: December 09, 2008, 02:59:28 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

You aren't alone...I look forward to signing in for the social connection, but not a magical/magickal one.  I also don't do online divination.  I think it would be fun to have pagans to chat with on solstice, that's it.
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« Reply #4: December 09, 2008, 04:42:15 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?
I'm one of those who can do that, which is part of why one of the ways I self-describe is "cyberwitch" - it's not a frame that'll be functional for everyone, any more than other sorts of Otherworld work, or Wicca/Wiccish, or magic (etc, etc) is a universal framework.  Which doesn't mean I can just up and do it randomly, with whomever happens along; I need some kind of connection with the people involved, much as I do in the equivalent IRL.

So I don't expect to have much more, or different, connection than Meabh anticipates with the Technopagan Solstice as a whole, though I will have more of "that kind" of connection with some of the other participants - the point in this instance isn't "magical connection" (after all, the person who's the main driving force behind the idea, Altair, does little/no magic), but the sharing of the experience.

I'm a bit skeptical of the popularity of cybercovens, online rituals, etc - while I'm definitely not in the contingent that writes it off as "can't be real" (I think it's entirely possible and viable in the right circumstances), I suspect quite a lot of the enthusiasm for it comes from solitaries who have no comparative, or whose IRL comparative is equally social, and are mistaking the more-social-than-mystical pleasure of having others to celebrate with for the magical (energetic, emotional, psychic, whatever) connection you refer to.  Humans are social animals, and connecting with each other on a social level can be very spiritually gratifying, without any more mystical component.

Based on your posts up to this point, I'm a little surprised you're asking about this; I wouldn't have thought "magical connection" would be all that relevant to a path that would suit you.  I'm wondering if what's behind this is over-exposure to people who insist that such a connection is "supposed to" happen (true in some Pagan religions, but by no means all), and you're trying to find out if it's okay if it doesn't.

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« Reply #5: December 09, 2008, 04:52:53 pm »


I'm a bit skeptical of the popularity of cybercovens, online rituals, etc - while I'm definitely not in the contingent that writes it off as "can't be real" (I think it's entirely possible and viable in the right circumstances), I suspect quite a lot of the enthusiasm for it comes from solitaries who have no comparative, or whose IRL comparative is equally social, and are mistaking the more-social-than-mystical pleasure of having others to celebrate with for the magical (energetic, emotional, psychic, whatever) connection you refer to.  Humans are social animals, and connecting with each other on a social level can be very spiritually gratifying, without any more mystical component.

Mmh, that sounds like cyber-circling *g* is a quite common thing by now?

When I started it within the community I was active at that time, it was just by accident that we found out:
OMG! This really wooorks!  Grin So we did a lot of experiments there.

I still do online ritual sometimes, but only with a few special people I'm connected to very strongly.

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« Reply #6: December 09, 2008, 05:33:57 pm »

I'm a bit skeptical of the popularity of cybercovens, online rituals, etc - while I'm definitely not in the contingent that writes it off as "can't be real" (I think it's entirely possible and viable in the right circumstances), I suspect quite a lot of the enthusiasm for it comes from solitaries who have no comparative, or whose IRL comparative is equally social, and are mistaking the more-social-than-mystical pleasure of having others to celebrate with for the magical (energetic, emotional, psychic, whatever) connection you refer to.  Humans are social animals, and connecting with each other on a social level can be very spiritually gratifying, without any more mystical component.
Quote

Very true and well said.  That's one of the concepts I'm pondering; the frequency of "legitimate"/"real" results vs. those that are that are perceived because of lack of experience.

Quote
Based on your posts up to this point, I'm a little surprised you're asking about this; I wouldn't have thought "magical connection" would be all that relevant to a path that would suit you.

Actually it's not; I've got more suitable (for me) physical plans.   I'll be keeping a fire going all night long to make sure the sun comes back for next year.

Quote
I'm wondering if what's behind this is over-exposure to people who insist that such a connection is "supposed to" happen (true in some Pagan religions, but by no means all), and you're trying to find out if it's okay if it doesn't.

I've been in the pagan community for a long time.  When online Pagan communities, etc, started there was a fair number of people who said they had no connection; and often doubted that such a thing was working.  The question was mostly derived from a curiosity to see how many people still feel that way, since given the way the "Up all night" post was phrased it seemed like it was assumed an online connection was typical.
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« Reply #7: December 09, 2008, 07:20:57 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

You aren't alone, there are quite a few Pagan who just don't connect that way. I find it works well if I know most of the people involved and therefore have some connection to them other than as just names on a computer screen.
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« Reply #8: December 09, 2008, 10:06:47 pm »

I've been in the pagan community for a long time.  When online Pagan communities, etc, started there was a fair number of people who said they had no connection; and often doubted that such a thing was working.  The question was mostly derived from a curiosity to see how many people still feel that way, since given the way the "Up all night" post was phrased it seemed like it was assumed an online connection was typical.
Ah, I see.  I think the connection you were seeing in that post was the sense of community that many of us, especially those who've been here for several years, have about TC - for those who do experience a more mystical/magical connection via computer, that can enhance the sense of community, but primarily it's non-magical/social.

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« Reply #9: December 11, 2008, 10:50:46 am »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

I don't feel any connection, other than on the social level, from attending online rituals, group meetings, etc, mostly because of time difference (I live in France, 6 hours ahead of EST). Cyerspace is timeless and spaceless, but because certain circles/rituals work on a time schedule, not everyone can assist them. Also, is it possible to filter sacred feelings through a television or computer screen? It's like trying to smell the odors of a delicious meal off a television/computer screen during a cooking demonstration. You know the meal is delicious by looking the screen, but you don't know just how delicious it is, because the other most important things are smell and of course, taste.

Online forums, on the other hand, do work very well in the cyberspace mode. That's where there are so many of them. It's active communication in real time, and nothing more than that. Electronic readings will never generate any true magick. They are too general and obviously impersonal. Magick connections come through person-to-person contact, vibrational feelings and other factors that come into the scene during a tarot/divination reading. On the other hand, it would be interesting to assist a reading by live webcam.   
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« Reply #10: December 11, 2008, 02:48:39 pm »

Electronic readings will never generate any true magick. They are too general and obviously impersonal. Magick connections come through person-to-person contact, vibrational feelings and other factors that come into the scene during a tarot/divination reading. On the other hand, it would be interesting to assist a reading by live webcam

At one time I would have agreed with this, but I put it to the test myself and found that there are ways to do accurate readings online.  It requires somewhat of a different approach and can do funny things to your head if you're not careful, but it is possible.

I'm a tarot reader by profession, and had done telephone work (and hated it) professionally and online work just for friends and established clients, but when I was asked to do an online reading for a comparative stranger (Juni) I put on a full-on experiment.  It started on the last Beehive incarnation of TC and continued a bit on this one.  I would link to it so you could judge for yourself but I'm not sure if the archive boards are accessible right now or not.

If you're talking about strictly electronic readings, using random shufflers and canned interpretations then yes, I agree that they're seldom as good as in-person readings.  They're too limited, for one thing.  I have, however, found one reading program that is pretty good.  It is called Orphalese and while I tend to disregard the interpretations it gives for the cards and use my own it's great for generating the spreads themselves.  Its shuffle program is a bit more complicated than most, and changes its mathematical progression according to what you type in if anything.  I've found it a great teaching tool, and have had students use it to throw a spread, then send me the spread to check their interpretation.

It's a free program and fun, if you want to check it out.  Much better than anything I expected to find out there.

Absent (quasi-techno-whatsit now or what? Cheesy )
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« Reply #11: December 11, 2008, 08:56:10 pm »

After seeing the "Up all night" thread I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that feels absolutely no "magickal connection" to online gatherings, circles etc?  Does that lack of connection extend to electronic tarot or divination?

I don't really get into online rituals, but I like chat gatherings. Perhaps if online rituals were live audio/video rather than just chat (or Second Life, which I abhor). I like hearing and seeing... I've bought quite a few audio rituals and meditations that work ok for me from www.goddessdownload.com

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« Reply #12: December 12, 2008, 11:03:44 am »


It's not really necessary to link the old archives; I can see what you mean. Thank you for the Orphelese link; I will be sure to check it out this coming week after we do our monthly computer cleaning. It appears to be really interesting.
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« Reply #13: December 12, 2008, 01:12:11 pm »

It's not really necessary to link the old archives; I can see what you mean. Thank you for the Orphelese link; I will be sure to check it out this coming week after we do our monthly computer cleaning. It appears to be really interesting.

I forgot to include the actual link, which wouldn't normally be much of a problem except that there is also a business school (or something like that) of the same name that comes up first in searches.  This is the link to the actual program download and forum site.  The forum is pretty much dead, but the program has a really good use tutorial included.

http://www.orphalese.net/index.aspx?chosenculture=en

Like I said, it's fun to play with and has some real potential as these things go.

Absent 

(edited to add my thanks to Sunny for originally bringing it to my attention)
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« Reply #14: December 13, 2008, 10:14:38 am »


Thank you for the link. Tarot is something I'm going to serious look into as I'm at the phase of my life where I feel a connection with the cards. I learned with the French Marseille set, but am going to buy myself the Ryder-Waite cards for a New Year's present; everytime I think about them, or see them in the esoteric book shop in Paris (located just down the street from Notre Dame) or the card/game shop at the local shopping center, I feel them calling to me. 
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