The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
April 18, 2021, 11:29:18 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 18, 2021, 11:29:18 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: What do you think about death?? I think Im becoming less spiritual....  (Read 6600 times)
southerngoddes
Journeyman
***
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 09:08:41 am
Argentina Argentina

Religion: none
Posts: 115

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: December 10, 2008, 01:07:44 pm »

 Hi!! I'm back after several months and after wrestling in reactivate my account!!! I have been through  so many things these last months!! many things has happened to me in so short time and  I  have been re-questioning many things I use to valorize and is like nothing else has sense to me ..... and things which used to be important, as family, death, life, happiness.......Its very hard for me to talk about these things with you  guys but I don't know who else can be so open.......besides because these kind of thinking is making me feel frustrated, sad, angry,  I feel I am becoming ... I don't know... joyless, and less and spiritual and at the end, these  feelings will make me unhappy... I tell you why........unfortunately somebody close to me has died, and it has been very tough for me, not for the fact of this person's death.... I realized that  ( along with this fact) many people I considered family, just turned their backs on me, I can  be confident with you and tell you that I never ever played  to be the victim.... I mean,  I've tried to be supporting, strong, useful and kind with all people around me..... all I got was complains, excuses and of course their backs..... but I already got over that..... sorta... working fine on it .......this fact has made think about death.....I would like to know what do you think about this important fact, which, for some,is also part of life by itself........I use to think different about this issue, but now,  I am almost ashamed of my thinking because I know is not right ,I'll tell you what I think.......  (please don't horrorize)...... I think when someone dies, there is nothing, absolutely nothing.......just flesh, just like some cold cut you can get at the deli market, nothing, pure darkness, nothing.........is this normal??/ has anyone of you ever thought or feel this way?Huh is not the first close death I have.... it has happened me before, but I never felt like this........ this whole thing is affecting me spiritually and is affecting my conceptions and belief.... please, I think is help what  I am needing .......
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #1: December 10, 2008, 01:20:45 pm »


This honestly sounds to me like depression - which is a really reasonable thing to have happen after a death of someone close to you.  Especially if your family isn't being supportive.

I'd suggest finding therapy or at least a doctor - or a clergyperson, if there's one you can trust.  Someone you can talk to face to face who is skilled at this kind of thing.
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
southerngoddes
Journeyman
***
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 09:08:41 am
Argentina Argentina

Religion: none
Posts: 115

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: December 10, 2008, 01:54:11 pm »

 yes, of course I thought about it.......but that is not the type of help I might need, a therapist gives a damn in the spiritual  or metaphysical concerns of a patient, is just enough as long as the patient  is mentally healthy..... Also I think I have become a more "heart-colded" person......I am starting to think that to behave rude, unsupporting, hyppocratic, non-kind etc, might not be nice... but it's effective, necessary ... and it's just right..........I can't believe I can convince myself that we are just matter, and nothing more.... yes, we can think and make use of reason.... but when you die.... that's gone...... we are just a corpse, another object like a chair... or a stone.......... why some belive in the afterlife?Huh? why I use to think we have  a soul and now not anymore?Huh why do people grief?
Logged
EverFool
Board Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 16, 2011, 12:40:01 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: atheist
Posts: 2960


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #3: December 10, 2008, 02:41:43 pm »


I'm going to second Shadow's suggestion for therapy/ talking to someone who can function much like a counsellor.  Believing that there is nothing after death doesn't *have* to be depressing.  I believe that after death, that's it.  But you certainly appear to experiencing anguish, and I don't suggest that you suffer in silence.  Unfortunately, noone here can really provide you the same level of help you can get from a professional you spend time with.
Logged

If anal prolapse teaches us anything, it's that it is what is inside that counts.
Morgaine
Senior Newbie
*
Last Login:April 30, 2009, 01:17:06 am
United States United States

Religion: Pagan
Posts: 12


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: December 10, 2008, 03:17:43 pm »

Hi!! I'm back after several months and after wrestling in reactivate my account!!! I have been through  so many things these last months!! many things has happened to me in so short time and  I  have been re-questioning many things I use to valorize and is like nothing else has sense to me ..... and things which used to be important, as family, death, life, happiness.......Its very hard for me to talk about these things with you  guys but I don't know who else can be so open.......besides because these kind of thinking is making me feel frustrated, sad, angry,  I feel I am becoming ... I don't know... joyless, and less and spiritual and at the end, these  feelings will make me unhappy... I tell you why........unfortunately somebody close to me has died, and it has been very tough for me, not for the fact of this person's death.... I realized that  ( along with this fact) many people I considered family, just turned their backs on me, I can  be confident with you and tell you that I never ever played  to be the victim.... I mean,  I've tried to be supporting, strong, useful and kind with all people around me..... all I got was complains, excuses and of course their backs..... but I already got over that..... sorta... working fine on it .......this fact has made think about death.....I would like to know what do you think about this important fact, which, for some,is also part of life by itself........I use to think different about this issue, but now,  I am almost ashamed of my thinking because I know is not right ,I'll tell you what I think.......  (please don't horrorize)...... I think when someone dies, there is nothing, absolutely nothing.......just flesh, just like some cold cut you can get at the deli market, nothing, pure darkness, nothing.........is this normal??/ has anyone of you ever thought or feel this way?Huh is not the first close death I have.... it has happened me before, but I never felt like this........ this whole thing is affecting me spiritually and is affecting my conceptions and belief.... please, I think is help what  I am needing .......

I don't post much on here, but SouthernGoddess, I am so very sorry for your loss.  This person who passed on; were you close in Spirit as well as in your physical life?  Was any particular portion of your spirituality influenced by this person who is now gone?  

What you saw - - that "nothing" and "cold cut deli market" - - could have been a spiritual reaction to the severance of your physical connection.  The lifeless body is a powerful sight; I know. (I remember experiencing that sensation when I saw my daughter's body.)  It can be physically traumatic to see your loved one without life.  I remember my body convulsing and then a huge wave of numbness taking over.  Your body can experience shock and your mind as well, which may very well be what has led you to the sensation of "nothingness."  

Can you journal from memory some of the most "connected" moments with this person during his/her life?  If you can, then I would encourage it.  Get into the most comfortable setting you can, and begin to express the sensations and emotions - - keeping to the best of all of them.  Your spiritual darkness or absence altogether could very well be a mechanism to inhibit the emotions you would otherwise be feeling.

I am so very sorry for your pain.
Logged
Hyacinth Belle
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 03, 2011, 01:02:54 pm
United States United States

Religion: Heathen/Taoist
TCN ID: Hyacinth_Belle
Posts: 1217


Making my sun run...

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5: December 10, 2008, 04:34:46 pm »

I would like to know what do you think about this important fact, which, for some,is also part of life by itself........I use to think different about this issue, but now,  I am almost ashamed of my thinking because I know is not right ,I'll tell you what I think.......  (please don't horrorize)...... I think when someone dies, there is nothing, absolutely nothing.......just flesh, just like some cold cut you can get at the deli market, nothing, pure darkness, nothing.........is this normal??/ has anyone of you ever thought or feel this way?Huh is not the first close death I have.... it has happened me before, but I never felt like this........ this whole thing is affecting me spiritually and is affecting my conceptions and belief.... please, I think is help what  I am needing .......
I am very sorry for your loss, and I think talking to someone would be helpful as well. Professionals should not push you to a certain religious or spiritual belief either.

To answer your question, my mortality is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately myself, although fortunately this hasn't been spurred by anything like you've had to go through. My feeling right now is very similar to yours-- after death, that's it. Light switch off. If there is some sort of afterlife on the other side, great, but I'm not expecting it. Heck, I'm not even convinced I have a soul.

The thing that irks me about death, and about my death in particular, is that it is one of the few things in life that is *not* a choice. Sooner or later, I'm going to have to die... hopefully later. I don't fear death necessarily, but I fear not living enough before it happens. I can't imagine ever being ready to leave this life, I love this physical world too much!

But I also understand that death is a natural part of life... what would life be if you didn't have death? And I don't feel sorry for those that die; I am sorry because I will miss them and that their family is sad. But I don't feel sorry for the dead person. Absolutely everything dies. When I die I'll just be doing what people do.

I don't know if this helps or not, but just know that there are people who agree with your view of death at the moment as well.
Logged

"She who stands on tiptoe / doesn't stand firm. / She who rushes ahead / doesn't go far. / She who tries to shine / dims her own light. / She who defines herself / can't know who she really is. / She who has power over others / can't empower herself. / She who clings to her work / will create nothing that endures. / If you want to accord with the Tao, / just do your job, then let go." ~ Tao Te Ching, chp. 24

"Silent and thoughtful a prince's son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15
Tana
Staff
High Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:July 26, 2013, 08:37:48 am
Germany Germany

Religion: I'm my Lady's own
Posts: 3407


fence-riding, free-flowing, shamagic = crazy

Blog entries (4)

WWW
« Reply #6: December 10, 2008, 05:00:19 pm »


Mmmh....I'm not trying to analyse or give a diagnose - I just will try a guess, because I think I know the dark place you're at right now.

Life sucks. It just hurts.
You've been shaken to the core. You don't think you can trust in anything like you did before - ever.
The idea of not-feeling, not-hurting, not-loving seems so very, very tempting.

Well, it might get better again. I can't promise it will, but chances are you'll recover.
You maybe change the way you think how the universe works. You may don't believe in the same things again.

Been there, done that.
It took me quite a time to reconcile again with the universe and the gods. I too, considered the idea that after death there is nothing.
And at some point I was able to accept this as a truth as possible as any other. After all, we don't know, do we.

I wish you the best and that things brighten up again *hugs*

« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 05:15:59 pm by Tana, Reason: just fixed the quote tag » Logged

'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation. That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance. You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long. All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.' Terry Pratchett 'Lords and Ladies'

(The FB button in my profile does not work, if you like go and add me: Tana Adaneth, the one with the Doom Kitty avatar Wink)

Only shallow people know themselves. (Oscar Wilde)
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #7: December 10, 2008, 05:17:50 pm »

I don't know... joyless, and less and spiritual and at the end, these  feelings will make me unhappy... I tell you why........unfortunately somebody close to me has died, and it has been very tough for me, not for the fact of this person's death.... I realized that  ( along with this fact) many people I considered family, just turned their backs on me, I can  be confident with you and tell you that I never ever played  to be the victim.... I mean,  I've tried to be supporting, strong, useful and kind with all people around me..... all I got was complains, excuses and of course their backs.....

If you think what you are experiencing is more than normal grief, I also suggest professional help if it is available to you.

Quote
I think when someone dies, there is nothing, absolutely nothing.......just flesh, just like some cold cut you can get at the deli market, nothing, pure darkness, nothing.........is this normal??/ has anyone of you ever thought or feel this way?Huh

It's actually a fairly common human belief. It certainly does not make you outside the real of "normal."

[Side Note: please write in sentences ending with a period followed by a blank space ort two instead of a series of periods. It will make you messages so much easier to read which we mean more responses.]
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: December 10, 2008, 08:44:32 pm »

Hi!! I'm back after several months and after wrestling in reactivate my account!!! I have been through  so many things these last months!! many things has happened to me in so short time and  I  have been re-questioning many things I use to valorize and is like nothing else has sense to me

I'm very sorry for your loss and the hard times you're going through.

I agree with everyone else who's suggested that some kind of counselling or supportive experience might help. One thing you might not know is that there are specific therapists who deal with grief - and there are also often grief-support group sessions in many places, that focus specifically on providing support after death of a loved one. It's not that you need to be 'fixed' or to do stuff to be functional in a general sense (as other mental health things might focus on), but that it's sometimes very helpful to be able to talk to someone outside your social circle/family about your grief and what you're feeling, and so on.

I don't know what there is in Argentina, but here, I'd suggest someone ask their hospital for any information about this. (Is there something like a hospital chaplain's office?) Otherwise, you could ask your own doctor, your library, or if you're in school somewhere (or have access to one somehow) your school support services.

As far as other people in your life you're trying to support - one of the particularly painful things about grief is that people grieve differently. Someone can have the best possible intentions in the world, and be doing just what they hope will be helpful - and it can be the most irritating, unnerving, frustrating things to someone else who's grieving.

This is why it's actually sometimes better for a family who's grieving to look for external support (individual friends or people who are a step away from immediate grief) rather than people who are grieving just as intensely. (This is also where grief support groups or other therapy come in.) It allows them to grieve and to process the grief without a lot of mucky stuff getting in the way that can really harm other relationships.

I've been around this more than once - particularly when the partner of an extremely close friend of mine died. There were things I could do for her that people who'd been closer to him really couldn't - they'd get on each other's nerves at times, because they were all grieving in different ways. (I knew, liked, and miss him, but I was not as passionately intertwined with his life as she was, or as many of his close friends were.) And a lot of what I did that was helpful was very mechanical - I took care of basic mundane details like making sure she had rides to medical appointments and the grocery store, I made sure someone was making sure she ate and slept regularly when that needed to happen. Someone else who was grieving intensely would have been really bad at that - because they'd be in the midst of the same timelessness and loss that she was.
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
Midnightrider
Journeyman
***
Last Login:January 21, 2009, 06:36:21 am
France France

Religion: Earth pagan (Old Religion)
Posts: 169


At the Midnight Hour

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: December 11, 2008, 08:57:29 am »


I am really sorry for your loss, and went through a similar situation when my Dad passed away 18 years ago. In spite of great differences in our personal beliefs we were very close and his loss gave me "after shocks" that were still strong many years later. But I did get over it. I would suggest that you should see a professional. This is no ordinary grief. You need to disconnect yourself, to deetach yourself entirely. Death is unavoidable, but for the living life does and must go on.
Logged

"Let your love be like the misty rain, coming softly but flooding the river."
southerngoddes
Journeyman
***
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 09:08:41 am
Argentina Argentina

Religion: none
Posts: 115

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: December 11, 2008, 09:54:47 am »

well...... the person I lost was my father, we were not very connected spiritually, but we had a relation based on respect.  I refused to see him, so I don't think I might not be suffering that shocking sight that you have suggested me. Its was my decision not to see him.
 Something I 've been thinking about, is my father's mother, we were very connected spiritually and she just wouldn't talk to me nor my immediate family my mother, sister & brother) not even to say how are we doing. It's like I have not only lost an important member of family but more people.
I can almost say that I got over it, I mean,the fact of my father's passing and also the concerns I had about my family; I know I have been supporting and I respected the different types of grieving everyone has, because I was aware of it, but; maybe I did everything too fast and didn't gave myself a time to grieve when I was with friends and family? ( I live in other country and I have no relatives nor friends where I'm living now)? I had my feet on the ground for too long and now I might lost that "magical thinking" and there is no spiritual world, and life is just reduced in  what you do and are  indeed in this material and physical world? ex. Southerngoddess: poster on a forum, a worker as any other in the world, family member as many others are too, and that's it. It's feel like passion for things I used to enjoyed , now I just found them different, like they don't make sense anymore, and things I know  should be important such as religion, philosophy, arts.....it's feel like I have been wasting my life with this things and I along for those moments when I was "wasting my life", because I was( maybe) more "happy", but I just can't get back to that.

Logged
EverFool
Board Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 16, 2011, 12:40:01 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: atheist
Posts: 2960


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #11: December 11, 2008, 10:34:23 am »


Not enjoying things that you used to is a common feature of depression.  If you're not enjoying *anything*, it's worth talking to someone.  Was the loss recent (I can't remember if you said)?  In the short term, this may be perfectly normal.  But over time, you should be finding that you enjoy the old things again.  If this issue persists for you, again, I think it's important to actually look for resources that can help you.
Logged

If anal prolapse teaches us anything, it's that it is what is inside that counts.
southerngoddes
Journeyman
***
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 09:08:41 am
Argentina Argentina

Religion: none
Posts: 115

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: December 11, 2008, 10:45:00 am »

it was five months ago, almost six.
Logged
EverFool
Board Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:September 16, 2011, 12:40:01 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: atheist
Posts: 2960


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #13: December 11, 2008, 10:47:35 am »

it was five months ago, almost six.

I don't want to go too much further on this, because I'm aware that I might come across as diagnosing you - and I don't have that expertise.  But I still feel that it may be worth considering that there may be depressive symptoms here.  It probably can't hurt to seek counselling, or to locate a peer-support group.  If you look, you might find something in your area.
Logged

If anal prolapse teaches us anything, it's that it is what is inside that counts.
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: December 11, 2008, 12:45:48 pm »

well...... the person I lost was my father, we were not very connected spiritually, but we had a relation based on respect.  I refused to see him, so I don't think I might not be suffering that shocking sight that you have suggested me. Its was my decision not to see him.

The loss of a parent is pretty much always going to be a big deal - no matter what your relationship with them is. It's not only the loss of them as an individual family member - but it also means many people end up looking at other significant changes in how they relate to their family.

Again, my knowledge of local resources for you is really limited - but I got a lot of benefit out of looking for resources on the loss of a father not only at the time (my father died when I was 15), but also since then, including 10 or 15 years after his death.

Grief isn't something that just happens at one point - it took me 5-6 months after my father died to really start grieving (because before then, I was trying hard to keep everything together), and there are parts of my loss I just shut off and didn't deal with for a long time later, like 5 to 10 years. (I don't think it was necessarily a wrong choice, but it *has* significantly impacted other friendships and interactions in my life in some ways, and I wouldn't recommend it particularly.)

I really encourage you to find some sort of grief support, ideally in person, but if not, online, in spaces that can provide specific support.

Grief is also a very powerful shifter of religious and spiritual belief and focus: many people who are grieving go through a time when their previous religious beliefs/practices feel meaningless or insufficient to them. In some cases, they make changes in their spiritual life - in other cases, once they do more grieving or make other shifts in their life, the spiritual or religious parts of their life work better again.

My own experience with grief and loss (both my own, and helping the friend I mentioned) makes me think that avoiding any major decisions about things like religion/life choices/etc. for 1-2 years after a particularly close and life-changing loss (parent, romantic partner, etc.) is probably a good move, as it often takes some time for people to be able to process long-term decisions the same way they used to. If you can't avoid them, taking some extra care about them helps a lot.

One thing about taking care of everyone else - I know that when I do it, it's partly because I want to help - but it's also been a way I avoid feeling things myself. Caretaking for others is a powerful emotional rush, but it's not always the healthiest choice for us.

In terms of your family, they are likely also processing things in their own way. Losing a child - even when that child is an adult - is often particularly hard for people, and it can give them 'tunnel vision', where all they see is their own grief, not the other people who also lost that person. Your grandmother may be better able to talk to you or reach out in a few months than she is now. (Or, you can keep trying to connect with her directly every few months, if you wish, and see how that goes.) A good support group would give you some other ideas and support and lots of other things to think about.
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Cat Predicts Death
Non-Religious News
Journey 8 3357 Last post July 28, 2007, 03:32:49 pm
by ShadowcatCM
Mohammed the Teddy Bear = Death « 1 2 3 4 »
Religious News
Sperran 45 13000 Last post December 11, 2007, 07:19:34 pm
by Didgeridoo
Wal-Mart Employee Trampled to Death « 1 2 »
Non-Religious News
Pyperlie 23 5879 Last post December 02, 2008, 06:35:09 pm
by mandrina
Death and Salvation in AE
Reformed Kemeticism SIG
Lykaios 3 2312 Last post December 10, 2008, 02:35:52 am
by Darkhawk
Death Vs Death
Art, Poetry and Writing
savatage 5 1777 Last post February 04, 2011, 08:02:36 am
by RandallS
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.065 seconds with 53 queries.