The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
April 09, 2020, 08:02:34 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 09, 2020, 08:02:34 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Prefering indoor or outdoor worship/activities on your path?  (Read 7005 times)
Waldfrau
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:January 02, 2013, 06:41:55 pm
Germany Germany

Religion: polytheistic witch leaning towards Reclaiming
TCN ID: Waldfrau
Posts: 2903


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: December 26, 2008, 07:33:49 am »

In a thread about the presence of deity the subject of indoor vs. outdoor worship came up and I'd like to discuss it:

The story always reminds me of a line from someone else, an Imperial Roman, I think... I'm rather brain-fried and can't remember where I heard it, but in describing the Celtic religion, stated that they did not believe that Deity could be properly addressed or invited indoors, since nothing of human construction could do Them justice.  Thus they were best addressed in Their Own Creation, outdoors, under the sun and moon, surrounded by trees, approaching Deity where Deity chooses to be, rather than trying with mortal hands to build Them a place, which would be hubris.

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?

  • Is there any spiritual/religious meaning for your path to indoor or outdoor activity? Does your path require or favor indoor or outdoor activities for some reasons?
  • How do you meet your beliefs/opinions about indoor and outdoor activities practically? How do you deal with logistic, space, time, weather and group issues? When would you decide against the place you favor spiritually/religiously for pragmatic reasons?
  • Do different forms of your spiritual/religious activities favor different places? How about ritual, offerings, invoking deities/spirits, devotional shrines, meditation work for example?
  • Are you satisfied with how you actually meet your preferences in praxis?
Logged

My blog: http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/ (English and German entries)

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Hyacinth Belle
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 03, 2011, 01:02:54 pm
United States United States

Religion: Heathen/Taoist
TCN ID: Hyacinth_Belle
Posts: 1217


Making my sun run...

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1: December 26, 2008, 11:03:21 am »

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?
I've honestly never done a full blown ritual outside, although I would love to do more of everything outside. I feel a lot closer to the gods outside. Also, practical constraints are always a factor - like finding a place.

Quote
  • Do different forms of your spiritual/religious activities favor different places? How about ritual, offerings, invoking deities/spirits, devotional shrines, meditation work for example?
I have meditated outside, and find that far better than doing so inside! Smiley
Logged

"She who stands on tiptoe / doesn't stand firm. / She who rushes ahead / doesn't go far. / She who tries to shine / dims her own light. / She who defines herself / can't know who she really is. / She who has power over others / can't empower herself. / She who clings to her work / will create nothing that endures. / If you want to accord with the Tao, / just do your job, then let go." ~ Tao Te Ching, chp. 24

"Silent and thoughtful a prince's son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15
Aisling
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:November 11, 2012, 02:17:34 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
TCN ID: Aisling
Posts: 4056


Blog entries (4)

harvestmoon13


Ignore
« Reply #2: December 26, 2008, 11:17:40 am »

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?

  • Is there any spiritual/religious meaning for your path to indoor or outdoor activity? Does your path require or favor indoor or outdoor activities for some reasons?
  • How do you meet your beliefs/opinions about indoor and outdoor activities practically? How do you deal with logistic, space, time, weather and group issues? When would you decide against the place you favor spiritually/religiously for pragmatic reasons?
  • Do different forms of your spiritual/religious activities favor different places? How about ritual, offerings, invoking deities/spirits, devotional shrines, meditation work for example?
  • Are you satisfied with how you actually meet your preferences in praxis?

You always ask interesting and thought-provoking questions, PF.  Smiley 

This wasn't something I'd given a lot of conscious thought to, but upon reflection, I definitely tend toward outdoor activities.  One of the primary goals of my path is to connect with the land and environment in a meaningful, sustainable way.  This doesn't happen when working primarily indoors. Even if bad weather or environmental conditions force my work inside, I tend to keep a lot of outdoorsy items in my indoor altar/ritual space to help maintain that connection. 

This system  works for me both pragmatic and spiritual levels.  The only exception is when I work with one deity who insists, not only on outdoor work, but work in places away from civilization and other people. That's simply not practical when the weather is truly bad or I'm not feeling physically up to a long mountain hike.  It becomes a situtation where he gets proper offerings and devotions only when it's practical for me to do so.
Logged

Juniper
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:January 06, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Hedgewitch with Neo-Wiccan leanings
TCN ID: Juniper
Posts: 1742


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #3: December 26, 2008, 12:55:06 pm »


I hope you don't mind that I'll answer your questions as a whole, as what I have to say is only simple.

My path is very much influenced by nature, and thus I spend a lot of time outdoors. Not necessarily in ritual, as I don't often undergo formal ritual, but almost every day I take my dog on a long walk through the woods that we are fortunate to live right in the middle of. To me this in itself is a spiritual experience, as along the walk I ground myself and open myself up to everything that is around me. The trees, the wind, all the creatures (we have a lot of deer around, and a lot of rabbits).

The only time I ever do something more 'formalized' outside is when it is a clear night and there is a full moon. I go outside (without my dog this time!) and stand or sit beneath the light of the moon, and I meditate. It makes me feel rejuvinated, as if the moon has given me some of her energy.

The altar inside my house is usually decorated with leaves, berries and the like that I've found laying around in the woods.
Logged

'How she longed for winter then!-
Scrupulously austere in its order
Of white and black
Ice and rock; each sentiment within border,
And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
~Sylvia Plath
Koimichra
Cauldron Council
Senior Staff
Adept Member
****
Last Login:May 10, 2011, 05:22:53 pm
United States United States

Religion: Catholic
Posts: 825


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #4: December 26, 2008, 01:21:45 pm »

How do you meet your beliefs/opinions about indoor and outdoor activities practically? How do you deal with logistic, space, time, weather and group issues? When would you decide against the place you favor spiritually/religiously for pragmatic reasons?

My liturgy prof in grad school always emphasized the CRUCIAL importance of a practice run before the actual ritual, ESPECIALLY when doing things outdoors. Indoors is simply a much more controlled environment.

Her example was pretty funny; a church decided to switch to outdoor baptisms in a nearby river, and as they didn't do a dry run, the pastor dunked the adults being baptized with their heads pointing downstream -- which resulted, first, in lots of water up the nose and tons of coughing and choking (pretty speedy river) and, second, all of their baptismal gowns, underneath which they were naked, caught in the current and flipped up over their heads!

She says ever since she walks through EVERY new ritual or new location at least once. Not a full-on rehearsal, but literally walking around the space for the movements to see how that works (is there something in the way?), putting books in the right place and trying to read them -- is there enough light? -- trying out the clothing, borrowing a teenager from youth group to stand in when she'll have to do something with or to someone, etc.
Logged
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5: December 26, 2008, 02:54:45 pm »


Path preferences: Ideally, at least some of what we do would happen outside.

That said, there's a whole lot of practical issues.

It's Minnesota. If we had wanted to do Winter Solstice outside, we had temperatures well below 0F after dark this year - not including windchill. That brings it down to the "Standing around outside with any exposed skin *anywhere* has serious health consequences after just a few minutes" level, which, honestly, is not conducive to good ritual in my book. (A brief foray outside to peer up at the dawning sun, sure. But being out there for more than 5-10 minutes, even well-bundled? I love my religion, but not enough to court needless frostbite, thanks.)

There are also privacy issues - while there are certainly spots in the Twin Cities where one can do outside ritual without too many interruptions, they're complicated for a very small group. Backyards have easy view from other people's yards in most cases (and when the weather's nice, lots of people are out and about.) Parks can be busy, and in practice, it's important to have at least one person available to deal with any concerns/questions from bystanders. (Which is fine if you're a group of 15, but a lot trickier if you're a group of 2-5 trying to do work outside.)

There's also all sorts of other issues like weather and such - a sudden rainstorm can put a huge crimp in whatever plans you might have had outside, after all. (And in Minnesota summers, we're prone to fairly sudden major thunderstorms.)

The group I trained in used to do a fair amount of outside ritual when we were regularly renting space. (Parks from Beltane to Mabon, indoor spaces otherwise - and Beltane was often chilly and miserable after the first hour or two.) Once they moved into the current covenstead, there's been less outside ritual for the whole ritual, but they've been able to incorporate parts of the ritual to go do things outside more easily. (So, for example, you'd set up circle to include the back yard, do the set-up for ritual, and then part of the working, like creating something, could be taken outside.)

The current coven works somewhat similarly. My covenmate has a lovely fenced backyard (though her next door neighbors can see through to her space easily, it's thoroughly blocked from the street and nearby apartment building.) We generally don't cast formal circle outside, but we have done (and will continue to do) some ritual work outside. For example, last summer solstice, we did a massive design in herbs, natural clays, and flowers on the paved area of her yard as part of our working (the things we visioned for the coming year.) It's usually not obviously ritual work, however - it might be us doing solar painting on fabric, designs on the ground, etc. but it's not us standing there and saying "Guardian of the gate of the East, the realm of Air, we ..." or anything like that.

We do have one part of our ritual - an offering to the deities of the first part of our food and drink from within circle - that goes outside afterwards. And that's something I don't expect will ever change, but it's manageable in all weathers. 

To sum up: I think awareness of the seasons and the outdoor world around us is a significant part of my path and practice. But the actual formal ritual work, I'm very much with Koi - there are some factors you just can't control outside that can throw otherwise amazing and powerful ritual into total chaos, and most of the time, I'd rather not court those.
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
Waldfrau
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:January 02, 2013, 06:41:55 pm
Germany Germany

Religion: polytheistic witch leaning towards Reclaiming
TCN ID: Waldfrau
Posts: 2903


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6: December 26, 2008, 03:13:41 pm »

I hope you don't mind that I'll answer your questions as a whole, as what I have to say is only simple.
I only write lists to bring an awereness of the different aspects and possibilities a subject might have. There's no need to answer it like a questionaire. I often don't do so myself. Wink

Quote
Not necessarily in ritual, as I don't often undergo formal ritual, but almost every day I take my dog on a long walk through the woods that we are fortunate to live right in the middle of. To me this in itself is a spiritual experience, as along the walk I ground myself and open myself up to everything that is around me. The trees, the wind, all the creatures (we have a lot of deer around, and a lot of rabbits).
I also had a practice of meditative walks through the forest when I lived near one and had enough time. I miss it very dearly now living in a bigger city. A park just isn't the same. The many people break my concentration and I don't want to attract funny looks either, but maybe I'll find some lonely spot somewhere.
Logged

My blog: http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/ (English and German entries)
Waldfrau
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:January 02, 2013, 06:41:55 pm
Germany Germany

Religion: polytheistic witch leaning towards Reclaiming
TCN ID: Waldfrau
Posts: 2903


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: December 26, 2008, 03:19:17 pm »

My liturgy prof in grad school always emphasized the CRUCIAL importance of a practice run before the actual ritual, ESPECIALLY when doing things outdoors. Indoors is simply a much more controlled environment.
I've never heard of a modern Catholic baptism done in a river, is that usual in the US? What I'm very curious about is to know what meaning outdoor practice does have to Catholicism or your take of it. Most things I remember from my Catholic upbringing happened indoors. Is there any theological meaning to indoor or outdoor worship in Catholicism or is it more a matter of practicallity or personal preferences?
Logged

My blog: http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/ (English and German entries)
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #8: December 26, 2008, 03:33:35 pm »

I've never heard of a modern Catholic baptism done in a river, is that usual in the US?

From the description Koi gave, I don't think it was a Catholic baptism.  It sounded like an adult baptism, whereas Catholics typically baptize babies.  (Or, at the very least, it was baptism by dunking, not by sprinkling, and you just can't do that with a baby--they don't know to hold their breath.)  I think baptism in a river is maybe less unusual in some of the adult-baptizing Protestant denominations, when an appropriate stream is readily accessible, but I may be wrong.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
Journey
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:February 13, 2010, 04:43:29 pm
United States United States

Religion: None
Posts: 1821


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: December 26, 2008, 04:09:30 pm »

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?

Simple answer: Outside.  Smiley

However, this being the Midwest weather doesn't always allow for it. I really like my backyard and my fire pit. But if the weather is bad, the back of my house is all windows and if I can't be out there I can at least pull back the curtains and have full view of it.   When doing indoor rituals if I am really connected the window almost seems like a mirror to what I am feeling, if that makes any sense?  I am also fortunate enough to have a giantic stone fireplace for indoor burning rituals.

But nothing beats a fallen stick in my hand from one of the big trees as I circle my fire pit outdoors. I live in a pretty quite neighborhood too, and unless one of the neighbors is having an outdoor BBQ there are usually no disturbances.
Logged
RhiannonWhiteMare
Master Member
****
Last Login:August 22, 2009, 12:05:19 pm
United States United States

Religion: Druidry
Posts: 315


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: December 26, 2008, 08:49:11 pm »



I would much rather be outside, but there are certain things that would not be conducive to doing all my rituals outside. For example, the summer heat and humidity here are really difficult for me to deal with. There is also the question of privacy and the noise element. I live in the suburbs of a major city and have neighbors all around me, so I don't have that much privacy. What parks we do have are in the downtown area. I really don't like the idea of conducting a ritual there, particulary, since until just a couple of weeks ago, city officials finally decided that having sex in one of the particular parks was illegal. Since most of said people having said sex in that park were prositutes and their customers.....well, it's not the kind of place I want to hang out in.

There are many reasons that I would love to be able to do everything outdoors, but a lot of times it isn't practical.
Logged

Rigantona, Great Queen
Garnet
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:November 01, 2015, 10:19:49 pm
United States United States

Religion: Departmental; Eclectic/NeoWiccan, Feri/Morningstar Student, Thelemite
Posts: 1316


My path is an omelet

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: December 26, 2008, 10:02:34 pm »

In a thread about the presence of deity the subject of indoor vs. outdoor worship came up and I'd like to discuss it:

I do most of my ritual and devotions inside.  For one thing, my shrines are inside.  Before I moved, my friends and I would occasionally do outdoor ritual, but we sometimes had a hard time with weather and finding a place in a park that wasn't already occupied.  Now, I live in a much larger city, so outdoor ritual in the area doesn't really happen.  (I have done outdoor ritual sometimes as part of Feri training, for example.)

But outdoor work is still important to my practice. I still sometimes leave offerings outside, or pour out libations.  I also really enjoy walking outside.  I realized this is important to me even though I'm definitely an urban pagan - I like to be out and about seeing my neighborhood and my city!  Right now the sidewalks are terribly icy, and I'm feeling the lack of walking.
Logged

Sine Silvering
Board Staff
Master Member
****
Last Login:February 20, 2011, 01:32:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: priestess, Gardnerian Wicca
Posts: 495


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12: December 27, 2008, 01:13:33 am »

In a thread about the presence of deity the subject of indoor vs. outdoor worship came up and I'd like to discuss it:

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?

  • Is there any spiritual/religious meaning for your path to indoor or outdoor activity? Does your path require or favor indoor or outdoor activities for some reasons?
  • How do you meet your beliefs/opinions about indoor and outdoor activities practically? How do you deal with logistic, space, time, weather and group issues? When would you decide against the place you favor spiritually/religiously for pragmatic reasons?
  • Do different forms of your spiritual/religious activities favor different places? How about ritual, offerings, invoking deities/spirits, devotional shrines, meditation work for example?
  • Are you satisfied with how you actually meet your preferences in praxis?

I'm Gardnerian.  We create sacred space when we need it, where we have determined it to be needed; when the work is done, we un-create that sacred space.

Practicing indoors and outdoors are different things.  Indoors one can lock the doors and feel secure that one will not be interrupted.  Outdoors one can only hope for that security. 

I *adore* outdoor ritual.  Light of a full moon is tangible:  I can feel it and it energizes me.  When I was a kid I rearranged the furniture in my room so I could sleep bathed in moonlight.  My mom used to tease me that  that was why I was such a lunatic.  Smiley

Outdoors one can build a bonfire to reach the heavens and carry our prayers aloft in the smoke.

Outdoors one can feel the pulse of the living earth beneath our feet, dance swaying with the trees in the wind.

Indoors turns the coven's focus inward; we are crammed together in a tiny space.  Touch is inevitable and unavoidable, the coveners become intensely emotionally  intimate because there is no other way to be while enwombed together in the indoor circle.

Everyone's practice would profit from including both ways, for you learn different things from each pattern.

Logged

--------------
BlessÚd Be!

When men speak ill of thee, live so as no one will believe them.
---Old Farmers Almanac, 1832
SatAset
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:November 06, 2011, 11:27:55 pm
United States United States

Religion: Kemetic Orthodox, Heathen, Orisa devotee
Posts: 886


Avatar and Sig Image by Lykaios

Blog entries (1)



Ignore
« Reply #13: December 27, 2008, 01:46:29 am »

In a thread about the presence of deity the subject of indoor vs. outdoor worship came up and I'd like to discuss it:

I wonder what reasons there are for you to worship and do other spiritual/religious activities inside or outside?

My shrines are inside and Kemetically speaking they are the House of God/Goddess/Netjer.  The sacred and the mundane merge in that space.  The shrine itself symoblizes creation, the sun coursing through the sky, death and renewal.  In ritual we connect to Netjer and the First Time (Zep Tepi) in that space; we realign ourselves to the Beginning and renew ourselves both spiritually (life force) and to our relationship with Netjer. 

Outside: Libations can be poured outside.  Mostly we eat offerings.

There is a ritual where the statue of Aset is brought out at dawn to greet the rising sun.  "Awakening of Aset by the Majesty of Ra" is the festival.  But the ritual would begin and end in doors--as the statue would be placed back in shrine at the end.

Also though, Netjer manifests through creation:  a hawk is a manifestation of the God Heru, a kite is Aset or Nebet Het, the plants are Wesir, the desert is Set, the night sky is Nut or the Sky Goddess that holds the ancestors and gives birth to the sun god.  Netjer manifests in various forms and in various ways in nature.  I don't know if noticing the Gods' Presence in nature counts as worship in your post, but maybe I recognize Them there too along with the ritual. 

« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 01:49:32 am by SatAset, Reason: add aset » Logged

I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --Me
Meabh
Apprentice
**
Last Login:May 24, 2010, 09:49:28 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism
Posts: 32


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: December 27, 2008, 09:28:23 am »

  • Is there any spiritual/religious meaning for your path to indoor or outdoor activity? Does your path require or favor indoor or outdoor activities for some reasons?
  • How do you meet your beliefs/opinions about indoor and outdoor activities practically? How do you deal with logistic, space, time, weather and group issues? When would you decide against the place you favor spiritually/religiously for pragmatic reasons?
  • Do different forms of your spiritual/religious activities favor different places? How about ritual, offerings, invoking deities/spirits, devotional shrines, meditation work for example?
  • Are you satisfied with how you actually meet your preferences in praxis?

I prefer to be outdoors for most activities but I do communicate with the gods indoors as well. It's much easier since we moved to this house.  We have a large yard and a treed area at the back where our outdoor alter is.  We also have a firepit and running water so I have everything I need now.  We also go to national parks that are nearby to be outdoors.  I don't have a group to worry about, just my family so we go outside to celebrate as weather allows.  For my personal ritual that I do by myself, I tend to go outside no matter what the weather. 

Holly
 
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Searching for an outdoor statue of Priapus . . .
Worship and Ritual
Ashlan 3 5221 Last post April 06, 2007, 05:34:09 pm
by SunflowerP
Outdoor rituals?
Paganism For Beginners
folksymama 10 7594 Last post October 06, 2008, 04:38:00 am
by Waldfrau
Outdoor Ritual Options in Massachusetts
Holidays and Festivals
lavenderstar 6 2404 Last post August 22, 2010, 04:36:59 pm
by Satsekhem
Group Dynamics and Suggestions for Activities
Miscellaneous Religious Discussions
darashand 4 1561 Last post January 03, 2011, 07:01:39 pm
by darashand
Michigan Assiatant Attorney General Fired For Anti-Gay Activities « 1 2 »
Political Discussions
RandallS 18 4293 Last post November 14, 2010, 08:06:13 am
by yewberry
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.068 seconds with 57 queries.