Respectable Pagans?

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[WarHorse]

So, 2 pagan rocket scientists at NASA. Seriously, have you ever wondered about the names of the missions and such? And the symbolism on the mission patches. I mean, seriously, it screams "Pagan".

Ever since the early days, yes, it has.

Please give them my thanks, if you have a moment.

WH - one who has been to the top of 39B.

[lol]

Okay forgive me for not quoting- theres four pages of comments

Telling your parents?
Telling anybody- my thoughts along that line is that when you introduce yourself do you say 'Hi I'm Bob and I'm a pagan?' Religion to me is one of those things you keep to yourself until someone asks or until there is a reason you need to explain. I might need to explain to my boss- I'm not working Samhain whatever the lass that does the rotas says because it is for me the main religious festival of the year and legislation says you can't make me do it.- I am actually more likely just to ask for Time back or take a days holiday. Theres no point making issue of things unless you have to- and trust me I will take issue if I have to.

If people know you well they will hopefully still accept you for who you are despite your beliefs, if they cannot accept you because of your beliefs I'd be inclined to think they probably weren't worth worrieing about.

Telling your parents it's a hard one- I have never 'told' my parents, it's simply never came up in discussion- am I being a coward about it? Maybe some folk would say so, but then I suspect they probably know anyway because of some of my friends and the way I live my life, it's a natural part of me, and my dad is a pagan and brought me up to have most of the beliefs I have without ever aknowledging it himself,

Maybe it's to do with being British and thinking running up to someone and yelling at them 'I'm a pagan' would be a bit rude I think I'd be of a mind to clap and go 'and do you want a medal?'

So I'd say don't 'tell' them, just get on with your life, introduce them to your friends and if they love and cherish you which I'm sure they do then the fact your wiccan/pagan whatever will just be absorbed into the love and your identity.

As for us lot being repectable we are like everyone else in that respect, some are some aren't, define respectable?
I'm a nanna, I have no tattoos -not because I object to them but because for me they hold so much meaning. There is one I want to have but unless I go back to Oz and get Tom to do it then it will never happen.

I'd love to run around in long flowing skirts all day, but I live on a farm and work in a kiddies home, jeans and boots make more sense, I only wear one piece of jewellry- it is a pentagram- but it's such a beautiful discrete piece that it's only ever been commented on because of it's beauty or once when the admin lass said 'lol you've lost your little star'- I hadn't it tends to migrate around the back.

I have however an acquaintance who comes to our local moot and although she too works within the Social Work department like myself- she will never tell anyone about her faith because she is so scared it will undermine her position and job.

My biggest problem is in biting my tounge and not opening my mouth when I know I maybe have a solution to a childs problem that would not be concidered orthodox- the most I have done is buy a dreamcatcher for one of our kids who has nightmares.

Don't be respectable be yourself, your parents should come round and love you for the child they know.

Unless you do something to convince them otherwise
BB
lol

[Elspeth Sapphire]

My mom never really accepted it, we simply never discussed religion when she came to visit, devout Catholic that she was.

That was the way it was with my mom.  One of the few times it came up was when she glanced at my tarot cards and said, "I don't believe in that crap."  I just smiled and informed her that it was okay because I believed.

I didn't need her approval.  The joy I felt within was enough for me.

Elspeth Sapphire

[Star]

Okay forgive me for not quoting- theres four pages of comments

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Unless your reply is a very very general one to the entire thread, you must quote.  That's a part of our forum rules, which you agreed to obey when you signed up.  The number of replies already posted makes it all the more important, because there are that many more posts you could possibly be replying to.  I'm sorry that it's inconvenient, but it's the only way we have of adequately tracing a conversation through any given thread.

I don't normally break out the mod hat for this kind of thing, but when you say "forgive me for not quoting", what that tells me is that you know the rule, you remember that you need to quote, and yet you choose to disobey the rule and not quote anyway.  And that's just not cool.  That's why you're getting an official warning instead of just a reminder like most people have been getting.  You obviously know the rule; you need to follow it.

[V]

"Think twice before you go confessing your secret to your parents, it could have disastorous consequences!"


I don't think I'll be disowned or anything, but I do think my parents will lose confidence in my decision making abilities. I'll probably lose quite a bit of respect, and they'll start to treat me like I'm going to become one of those 'wild' teenagers or something. What you said made sense, though, thanks.

I hate to put pressure on you, but I'm really hopeful about your generation's coming of age!

I've seen a couple of generations deal with this issue, and I have to say that, in ways, the weight is beginning to lift.  What I see in some of our "new generation" is an understanding that modeling responsibility, open-mindedness, and a quest for knowledge is far better than merely shocking their parents and teachers.  In this, Mithril, you are way beyond where I was when I was your age.

I've met several teens who understand that it is not in their best interests to announce ALL of their thoughts and beliefs to the world until they can honestly say that their ideas have stood the test of time (or at least a few years).  Yes, families should provide an atmosphere where everyone can express and "try on" new ideas; but, in reality, humans are human.  We get scared.

The best example of a person's compromise I can remember is that of a 16-year-old boy who was interested in paganism but was being raised in a very fundamental home.  Instead of talking about the religious aspects, he asked for a copy of Bulfinches Mythology for Christmas.  His parents gave it to him.  He asked for a bunch of books on comparative religion.  Mom and Dad obliged. 

By the time he was 18, he had a great background in the history of religion. His parents knew what he was doing every step of the way, but he was so non-confrontational that they accepted it as a sign of real maturity.  I don't know how they took it when he finally told them what he believed, but there's little doubt that his faith was stronger as a result of the self-discipline. 

[Lily]

I hate to put pressure on you, but I'm really hopeful about your generation's coming of age!

*smiles*

Can I second that?

[Purplewitch]

Telling anybody- my thoughts along that line is that when you introduce yourself do you say 'Hi I'm Bob and I'm a pagan?' Religion to me is one of those things you keep to yourself until someone asks or until there is a reason you need to explain.
Theres no point making issue of things unless you have to- and trust me I will take issue if I have to.

I've really never understood why, 'coming out', for want of a better phrase right now, is so often seen as being equated with shouting from the rooftops, or announcing to all and sundry 'hi, I'm PerditaX and I'm a pagan'.
Like most people care or need, never mind deserve, to know?

Then again, it's similar to having someone give chapter and verse of what they are and what they believe when a simple 'I'm Wiccan' or 'I'm pagan' would have sufficed and answered the original question, and left the other person free to ask further, or not..

Sometimes there seems to be this need to offer up too much information, some kind of defence mechanism? A need to over explain?

If people know you well they will hopefully still accept you for who you are despite your beliefs, if they cannot accept you because of your beliefs I'd be inclined to think they probably weren't worth worrieing about.

"Those who matter do not mind and those who mind do not matter..." Doesn't always work, but sometimes it helps to tell yourself that

I never felt the need to stand up and scream it, I just stopped hiding it a long time ago, and if it comes up, it comes up, otherwise, it's nobody else's business. When it does come up, 'my daughter in law's a Wiccan' (let's not go there with my MiL who shared that with a waitress in a restaurant down in CA lol), or 'my old lady's a witch', (my beloved to our now housemate) is about as far as it goes. If anyone wants to ask more they do, mostly they don't. And life and the conversation carries on from where it was before it came up.

Maybe it's to do with being British and thinking running up to someone and yelling at them 'I'm a pagan' would be a bit rude I think I'd be of a mind to clap and go 'and do you want a medal?'

Darn, and there was me thinking I was losing the Brit in me - apparently not since I know exactly what you mean lol

My biggest problem is in biting my tounge and not opening my mouth when I know I maybe have a solution to a childs problem that would not be considered orthodox- the most I have done is buy a dreamcatcher for one of our kids who has nightmares.

Why do I feel like I have a reputation for unorthodox even among those who don't know why I might be what they'd consider unorthodox?

[Darkhawk]

I've really never understood why, 'coming out', for want of a better phrase right now, is so often seen as being equated with shouting from the rooftops, or announcing to all and sundry 'hi, I'm PerditaX and I'm a pagan'.
Like most people care or need, never mind deserve, to know?

I think, strictly speaking, "coming out" as an action is specifically doing the, "Sit the person down and explain to them that one's whatever"; that's what it means.

If one is living one's life without being closeted at all, obviously that sort of 'please update your reality regarding me' conversation is unnecessary.  And, for most interactions, the decision to be closeted or no is irrelevant; the subject doesn't come up.  "Coming out" has always struck me as primarily a correction process for relationships where there has been active concealment or deception, where that information would have been available if it were not for the closeted state.

Being out doesn't entail actually doing much of anything. :}

[Purplewitch]

I think, strictly speaking, "coming out" as an action is specifically doing the, "Sit the person down and explain to them that one's whatever"; that's what it means.

You're right, coming and being are different things and I don't think I meant to imply they weren't

But given the way my mind isn't working today, I'll believe myself capable of any amount of mud mixing lol
and you brought a thought to mind that may or may not make my mud clearer...

I've really never understood why, 'coming out', for want of a better phrase right now, is so often seen as being equated with shouting from the rooftops, or announcing to all and sundry 'hi, I'm PerditaX and I'm a pagan'.

Perhaps I should have phrased that more as... why coming out to one (or one set f'ex a family) person is so often taken as meaning you intend coming out to each and every person you meet.

I think what I was trying to poke at was different courses of action with different people, depending on who they are and how much they, and/or their relationship with you matters... as opposed to a thinking that one course of action has to fit all situations....

Just colour me confused today, confused by myself 

[Goth]

in general, do pagans tend to be what people like my close minded parents consider unrespectable and not fit to associate with

The term 'unrespectable' is subjective.  Who decides what...or who...is respectable or not?  And why do they come to those conclusions?

Nurture, social upbringing, intolerance, generalisation...are all a 'deciding' factor.

Pagans are no different to any other people.  You get good and bad in all walks of life.  People should be given the benefit of the 'doubt'...unless proved otherwise IMO 

[feral]

The term 'unrespectable' is subjective.  Who decides what...or who...is respectable or not?  And why do they come to those conclusions?

I was thinking this also. A person who wants to believe something is bad might not care so much about the so called respectable people in that category. A person who says 'those pagans are all a bunch of tree huggers' (and who sees tree huggers as a bad thing, which I don't, lol) really might not care about the pagans who aren't because they're already embracing a negative stereotype even though there are plenty of people not supporting that stereotype.

Normally I have (when not unemployed thanks to layoffs in the sub-prime industry) a very respectable job, where I wear business clothes and as an executive assistant meet with leaders of businesses and CEOs and all manner of hoighty-toighty respectable 'types' who in general I don't really respect at all... But when I get home, the job doesn't come home with me- and then  my tattoos show, and my hair comes down, and everything else becomes a reflection of myself which is one that a lot of people probably do not see as respectable, even though I am the same person as when I am wearing the clothes appropriate for my job. 

If it comes down to things like that, does it really matter if you can or can't show your parents pagans who are what respectable means to them? What would matter more to me, which is how I handled it as a teenager, is that I be who I am, show my mom over time that her fears were unfounded, and let my life be the example to her.

[lol]

[modbreak]
Unless your reply is a very very general one to the entire thread, you must quote.  That's a part of our forum rules, which you agreed to obey when you signed up.  The number of replies already posted makes it all the more important, because there are that many more posts you could possibly be replying to.  I'm sorry that it's inconvenient, but it's the only way we have of adequately tracing a conversation through any given thread.

I don't normally break out the mod hat for this kind of thing, but when you say "forgive me for not quoting", what that tells me is that you know the rule, you remember that you need to quote, and yet you choose to disobey the rule and not quote anyway.  And that's just not cool.  That's why you're getting an official warning instead of just a reminder like most people have been getting.  You obviously know the rule; you need to follow it.
[/modbreak]

Sorry- getting used to new forum and new rules,  wasn't deliberately being naughty and when there are such a lot of replies!

  lol

[lol]

Then again, it's similar to having someone give chapter and verse of what they are and what they believe when a simple 'I'm Wiccan' or 'I'm pagan' would have sufficed and answered the original question, and left the other person free to ask further, or not..

Sometimes there seems to be this need to offer up too much information, some kind of defence mechanism? A need to over explain?

Too easily done isn't it, my policy is don't offer the info unless someone asks, I'd be very wary of someone who came up to me an proffered the information of their religious faith out of the blue- I'd be scared they wanted to convert me


"Those who matter do not mind and those who mind do not matter..." Doesn't always work, but sometimes it helps to tell yourself that

I agree but it's a rule that mostly works- sometimes they have to do 




Darn, and there was me thinking I was losing the Brit in me - apparently not since I know exactly what you mean lol


You can take the las sout of Britain my dear....

Why do I feel like I have a reputation for unorthodox even among those who don't know why I might be what they'd consider unorthodox?

Because you probably are 

[/quote]

BB
lol

[Purplewitch]

Too easily done isn't it, my policy is don't offer the info unless someone asks,

funny how rarely they do ask...

You can take the las sout of Britain my dear....

This is true - but at least it allows me to 'translate' for himself - especially since he likes watching gordon ramsay, although it's hard to translate until you stop laughing because you know what gordon was threatening to hang someone from a bridge by lol (Sorry, that was OT but it still makes me laugh)

Because you probably are 

I think the probably ship sailed out of sight of land a long time ago

[DazzlednFrazzled]

**General reply to the entire thread**

I just wanted to say this thread has been very helpful!  Moon Ivy sent me the link from a different thread I was participating in, same type of topic -- this is great and I just wanted to say thanks for all the great replies on the topic!!

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