The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
August 09, 2020, 06:51:22 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 09, 2020, 06:51:22 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Is this atheism?  (Read 5185 times)
Selegna
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 26, 2012, 08:50:53 pm
Argentina Argentina

Religion: Eclectic, polytheist, follower of Loki, Brighid and Hera.
Posts: 474


Blog entries (0)

IceAngie
WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: January 30, 2009, 07:19:41 pm »

I was thinking today... what would someone who actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them be? Someone who says "I am here, gods are there, and I don't care". Is that a form of atheism, since the person doesn't have any gods, even if s/he believes gods exist? Or is it something else?  Huh
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Melamphoros
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:March 28, 2015, 11:01:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: Informed Eclectic with Hellenic Overtones
TCN ID: Melamphoros
Posts: 13621


Kiss My Scythe

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #1: January 30, 2009, 07:40:13 pm »

I was thinking today... what would someone who actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them be? Someone who says "I am here, gods are there, and I don't care". Is that a form of atheism, since the person doesn't have any gods, even if s/he believes gods exist? Or is it something else?  Huh

I'm not sure, but I think that may be a form of Nihilism.
Logged



Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog
Fagan_the_Pagan
Master Member
****
Last Login:February 11, 2012, 04:39:54 am
United States United States

Religion: Ecclectic Bard
Posts: 301


Tá tine sna ceann orm

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: January 30, 2009, 07:43:58 pm »

I was thinking today... what would someone who actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them be? Someone who says "I am here, gods are there, and I don't care". Is that a form of atheism, since the person doesn't have any gods, even if s/he believes gods exist? Or is it something else?  Huh
It wouldn't be atheism, since it refers to a disbelief in God or gods.  I also don't think Nihilism is quite proper, because I believe that refers to finding value in nothing.  Wrap your head around the difference between "I don't believe in anything" and "I believe in nothing." It's not agnosticism either, since that is not knowing whether they exist or not.  The "I don't care" sentiment inclines me to refer to this as Apatheism.
Logged

"We're actors!  We're the opposite of people."--Tom Stoppard "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.
Fagan_the_Pagan
Master Member
****
Last Login:February 11, 2012, 04:39:54 am
United States United States

Religion: Ecclectic Bard
Posts: 301


Tá tine sna ceann orm

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #3: January 30, 2009, 08:29:34 pm »

It wouldn't be atheism, since it refers to a disbelief in God or gods. 
Err . . . atheism refers toa disbelief in God or gods, that is.  Hopefully that was understood, but I can see how it would be confusing.
Logged

"We're actors!  We're the opposite of people."--Tom Stoppard "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.
BGMarc
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 17, 2011, 09:57:32 pm
Australia Australia

Religion: Stoic (with declining druidic/wiccish hangovers and emergent Hellenic/Kemetic affiliations)
Posts: 1525


Blog entries (0)

Marc Larkin 6marc9
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4: January 30, 2009, 08:55:52 pm »

I was thinking today... what would someone who actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them be? Someone who says "I am here, gods are there, and I don't care". Is that a form of atheism, since the person doesn't have any gods, even if s/he believes gods exist? Or is it something else?  Huh

To be without religion, indifferent to religion or hostile to religion is to be irreligious. To believe in deity is to be theistic. Seems like the most likely term would be irreligious theism, but the attitude smacks strongly of Deism. I suppose that technically the 'irreligious' could be comfortably prepended to any more precise descriptor of the persons actual beliefs vis a vis the status of deity (possible/impossible, knowable/unknowable, extant/potent). A search for irreligious theism on google brings up a range of articles that seem to use the term to cover the situation that you are describing.
Logged

"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

BGMarc at the Pub
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #5: January 30, 2009, 09:41:20 pm »

I was thinking today... what would someone who actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them be? Someone who says "I am here, gods are there, and I don't care". Is that a form of atheism, since the person doesn't have any gods, even if s/he believes gods exist? Or is it something else?  Huh

I have to go with Deism.  in fact, I think that's pretty much exactly what Deism is.
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:June 23, 2020, 07:47:48 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #6: January 30, 2009, 09:51:55 pm »

To be without religion, indifferent to religion or hostile to religion is to be irreligious. To believe in deity is to be theistic. Seems like the most likely term would be irreligious theism, but the attitude smacks strongly of Deism.

It sure does -- although it isn't exactly the same thing as historical Deism, it seems darn close. It's probably the closest word to the OP's idea.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
BGMarc
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 17, 2011, 09:57:32 pm
Australia Australia

Religion: Stoic (with declining druidic/wiccish hangovers and emergent Hellenic/Kemetic affiliations)
Posts: 1525


Blog entries (0)

Marc Larkin 6marc9
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: January 30, 2009, 10:11:24 pm »

It sure does -- although it isn't exactly the same thing as historical Deism, it seems darn close. It's probably the closest word to the OP's idea.

I'm not convinced yet. The OP's question sent me off on a bit of a romp through the philosophy and religion websites (like I have nothing bettter to do with my time Smiley Procrastination RULES!). The impression I am getting is that a lot of the Age-of-Enlightenment Deists had a strong thread of monotheism, creationism (with a strong tendency to viewing the creator as an architect) and strong perfectionism (i.e. the creation is perfect already, so God doesn't intervene to answer prayer, suspend the laws of physics, etc.). It's a universe where God is in his Heaven and all is well with Creation.

I wasn't getting that sort of vibe from the OP though. Willing to be convinced though.
Logged

"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

BGMarc at the Pub
treekisser
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 30, 2011, 05:18:30 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Bajoran
Posts: 1200


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #8: January 31, 2009, 05:12:56 am »

The "I don't care" sentiment inclines me to refer to this as Apatheism.

 Cheesy Brilliant term.
Logged

'Whatever such a mind sees is a flower, and whatever such a mind dreams of is the moon.' - Basho
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:June 23, 2020, 07:47:48 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #9: January 31, 2009, 08:34:55 am »

The impression I am getting is that a lot of the Age-of-Enlightenment Deists had a strong thread of monotheism, creationism (with a strong tendency to viewing the creator as an architect) and strong perfectionism (i.e. the creation is perfect already, so God doesn't intervene to answer prayer, suspend the laws of physics, etc.). It's a universe where God is in his Heaven and all is well with Creation.

That's true, but I think the situation is similar. The OP seemed to be saying something like "The Gods Exist. I Exist. We don't interact." That seems very close to Deism. Perhaps another term would be better as there certainly are differences, but I don't think such a term exists.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
FierFlye
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 14, 2013, 06:14:57 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: FierFlye
Posts: 2392


Photo Credit: http://roothieb.blogspot.com/

Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: January 31, 2009, 11:50:18 am »

Seems like the most likely term would be irreligious theism,

This is assuming the person is without religion.  What if they have a religion, but gods just aren't a part of it?
Logged

Spiritual Blog: Fier's Flame
BGMarc
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 17, 2011, 09:57:32 pm
Australia Australia

Religion: Stoic (with declining druidic/wiccish hangovers and emergent Hellenic/Kemetic affiliations)
Posts: 1525


Blog entries (0)

Marc Larkin 6marc9
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11: January 31, 2009, 11:58:02 am »

This is assuming the person is without religion.  What if they have a religion, but gods just aren't a part of it?

That's not the situation the OP referred too, but to answer anyway; I don't think something can be a religion without being theistic. I realise that I may differ from some people who choose to define religion as including whatever they want, but I just can't deal with that approach. I accept that to some people religion might include atheistic or agnostic paths, but I don't see it that way. YMMV.
Logged

"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

BGMarc at the Pub
FierFlye
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 14, 2013, 06:14:57 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: FierFlye
Posts: 2392


Photo Credit: http://roothieb.blogspot.com/

Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12: January 31, 2009, 12:09:41 pm »

The impression I am getting is that a lot of the Age-of-Enlightenment Deists had a strong thread of monotheism, creationism (with a strong tendency to viewing the creator as an architect)

This is what I am seeing too.  Belief in gods doesn't automatically lead to a belief that they created the universe.  So maybe deism isn't quite the right term...

The original post resembles myself a bit, so I'm interested the responses it gets.
Logged

Spiritual Blog: Fier's Flame
FierFlye
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 14, 2013, 06:14:57 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: FierFlye
Posts: 2392


Photo Credit: http://roothieb.blogspot.com/

Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: January 31, 2009, 12:20:23 pm »

That's not the situation the OP referred too
Well, she said, "actually believes in god/s but doesn't have any religion or practice to honor them".  She didn't say they didn't have any kind of practice at all.  Although I may have misunderstood her.

Quote
I don't think something can be a religion without being theistic.
So what would you call them?
Logged

Spiritual Blog: Fier's Flame
treekisser
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 30, 2011, 05:18:30 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Bajoran
Posts: 1200


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: January 31, 2009, 01:13:24 pm »


So what would you call them?

Personally, I'd call them life philosophies. Or a metaphysical belief system, if it involves non-deity metaphysical beliefs.
Logged

'Whatever such a mind sees is a flower, and whatever such a mind dreams of is the moon.' - Basho

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Defining Atheism and Atheist Beliefs « 1 2 »
Philosophy and Metaphysics
Journey 15 5846 Last post December 28, 2007, 05:37:18 am
by Star
Atheism: A religion? « 1 2 ... 5 6 »
Paganism For Beginners
INsearch 84 17817 Last post January 17, 2009, 07:52:42 am
by treekisser
Nature reverence and Atheism? « 1 2 »
Paganism For Beginners
Ryan 18 6676 Last post October 17, 2009, 04:15:22 pm
by desval3
Atheism does not exist or atheism redefined « 1 2 ... 26 27 »
Philosophy and Metaphysics
Lykos 397 50286 Last post October 22, 2009, 06:08:46 pm
by Darkhawk
Atheism and witchcraft
Miscellaneous Magical Discussions
Collinsky 10 11521 Last post December 12, 2010, 12:27:10 pm
by Benvarry
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.057 seconds with 50 queries.