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Author Topic: Would the Gods exist without us?  (Read 10236 times)
Nehet
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« Reply #15: April 01, 2009, 09:29:52 pm »

THAT.

Sunflower

Now I'm all goosebumpy. That comic is very much in line with my experience. 

I think, in general, beings learn from bumping into other beings.  That's how the universe evolves.  I think that one of them main reasons we are drawn to studying other beings (from dolphins to deities) is that they perceive the world in a different way than we do. 

I suspect the Gods feel similarly about us.

And you've got to admit, we can be quite amusing to watch.
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« Reply #16: April 03, 2009, 09:43:22 pm »

This is something that I've seen touched upon in many threads before, but I wanted to ask it as a direct question:

Do you think the Gods would still exist if humans didn't?

Sure!  But they wouldn't be the same as they are because humans do exist.

She changes everything she touches....  and so do I.   Grin
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« Reply #17: April 03, 2009, 10:50:35 pm »

Sure!  But they wouldn't be the same as they are because humans do exist.

Amy!  Where have you been? We've missed you!!
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« Reply #18: April 03, 2009, 10:51:11 pm »

Sure!  But they wouldn't be the same as they are because humans do exist.

She changes everything she touches....  and so do I.   Grin

AMY!!!

Where in the world have you been??? I was thinking about you a couple of weeks ago!
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« Reply #19: April 03, 2009, 10:58:38 pm »

Amy!  Where have you been? We've missed you!!

I have become stunningly bad at keeping up with online stuff.  I couldn't believe it when I realized how long it had been since I visited!
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« Reply #20: April 03, 2009, 11:00:58 pm »

I have become stunningly bad at keeping up with online stuff.  I couldn't believe it when I realized how long it had been since I visited!

I totally understand. Randall told me you were over here and I about died. Haven't see you in ages.
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« Reply #21: April 03, 2009, 11:02:15 pm »

I have become stunningly bad at keeping up with online stuff. 

::nodding:: I know how that can be.  Doesn't stop us from missing you, however.  Wink
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« Reply #22: April 22, 2009, 01:10:05 am »

This is something that I've seen touched upon in many threads before, but I wanted to ask it as a direct question:

Do you think the Gods would still exist if humans didn't?
Like others that have responded to this thread I think that the gods would still exist if humans didn't.  If we ceased to exist only our perceptions, stories, and myths of the gods would disappear, not the gods themselves.  My sense of things is that what we consider to be the attributes of a particular deity are glimpses into the larger reality of who/what that god/dess is.  The names that we assign to the gods, as well as the myths, stories, etc. associated with those names are ways of explaining those glimpses.

So, since what we know of the gods is an incomplete picture of the totality of their being, the absence of our perceptions of them wouldn't alter their existence.  They would still exist without the names and myths that humans have created for and about them. That's my perspective anyway....
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« Reply #23: May 26, 2009, 08:38:32 pm »

This is something that I've seen touched upon in many threads before, but I wanted to ask it as a direct question:

Do you think the Gods would still exist if humans didn't?

I think some sort of deity would exist, but any that perhaps humans created through their own consciousness (if indeed that can happen) wouldn't. I personally subscribe to the idea that there is some sort of deity(s) that would be here regardless of whether humans had evolved (or been created, or both).
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« Reply #24: June 06, 2009, 10:17:32 am »

This is something that I've seen touched upon in many threads before, but I wanted to ask it as a direct question:

Do you think the Gods would still exist if humans didn't?

I'm an animist, and some of the gods I believe in are simply non-personified land-masses, or the 'rain', or a particular type of cloud. As those clouds and rain and land-masses will go on without humans (well, you know, keeping in mind the natural changing of the land over time and stuff), then yes, I absolutely think these gods will continue without humans.

On the other hand, I'm not sure where I stand with home/hearth type deities that to me, clearly sprang out of human communities and societies. Do they continue without us? I don't know. I'd like to think so... but to me it would also make sense if they didn't. If they sprang from human community, they might not be able to survive without it.
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« Reply #25: June 06, 2009, 11:54:29 am »

If we ceased to exist only our perceptions, stories, and myths of the gods would disappear, not the gods themselves. 

I agree, and I think that's a good way of putting it.
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« Reply #26: June 06, 2009, 11:57:32 am »

On the other hand, I'm not sure where I stand with home/hearth type deities that to me, clearly sprang out of human communities and societies. Do they continue without us? I don't know. I'd like to think so... but to me it would also make sense if they didn't. If they sprang from human community, they might not be able to survive without it.

That's an interesting thought. Drawing on what Sylvan said, if you took away our perceptions and myths then perhaps for some Gods there wouldn't be anything else left?
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« Reply #27: June 06, 2009, 12:20:47 pm »

This is something that I've seen touched upon in many threads before, but I wanted to ask it as a direct question:

Do you think the Gods would still exist if humans didn't?

Well..to be honest..no. None of these things would exist if humans didn't simply because we (as a collective race..not meaning anyone here or in specific) created religion and the deities that go with it.

To me, any deity is simply one of many possible symbolisms for understanding natural forces or even aspects of human nature..I can understand that it would seem almost sacrilege to even think that myths and religion might simply be a way of making sense of an otherwise incomprehensible world but this is how I see it.
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« Reply #28: June 06, 2009, 02:43:57 pm »

That's an interesting thought. Drawing on what Sylvan said, if you took away our perceptions and myths then perhaps for some Gods there wouldn't be anything else left?

Maybe the various 'elder gods' stories, the huge be-tentacled gods with the enormous teeth and claws, whose mission seems to be to eat the universe, are the only remnants left of the gods of dinosaurs, leviathans, and other prehistoric and extinct species?

I'm half joking, but also half serious.  If people-type gods are our containers for these huge forces, what is to say other species don't also feel some kind of shaped wonder in their perceptions of 'outside me'.  If our gods have independent existence within those containers, then, while they may still have independent existence without us, the containers would become kind of pointless.  How long would the containers hang on, from inertia if nothing else, if the people themselves were to suddenly disappear.

Would whatever came after us perceive these remnants and create stories about them, while at the same time comforting themselves with 'them-shaped' gods that drew on the same basic forces.

(wandering deserted tourist spaces at four in the morning, then forgetting to sleep once I get home, tends to bring strange images to mind)

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« Reply #29: June 06, 2009, 08:13:31 pm »

That's an interesting thought. Drawing on what Sylvan said, if you took away our perceptions and myths then perhaps for some Gods there wouldn't be anything else left?

Well, this is what I find myself wondering. If gods that sprang up out of the hearth, or human ceremony (such as gods specifically connected to marriage rites), would perish or perhaps mutate with no signs of that hearth or human ceremony any longer.

My problem is that on the other hand, I am a firm believer in the existence of the Otherworlds, which means that I believe that even once humans are gone, parts of their soul will remain in existence in certain realms. Others may think it's simply untrue, but for me, I believe I can commune with some of my ancestors in the middleworlds and underworlds, and some of them have been dead for a long time. I even believe in gods who essentially are deified ancestors.

In that sense, my belief system holds that even if humans themselves were gone, the would remain 'over there.' And if something as transient and short-lived as a human being can persist, couldn't gods as well? I mean, if you don't believe in the Otherworlds at all, then this whole theory works apart. But if you do believe in more worlds of energy than just this one, then why not?
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