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Author Topic: Iconography Clarification  (Read 2000 times)
SatAset
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« Topic Start: March 07, 2009, 06:26:18 pm »

Many times while looking at pictures or statuary it is hard to tell deities apart.  The people who sell these items don't help because oftentimes they mislabel them.  I've seen a Ma'ahes statue labeled as Sekhmet and a Yinepu or Wepwawet statue labeled as Isis. 

So what are differences in iconography with Amun and Amun-Ra? 
Atum and Atum-Ra? 

Nebet Het and Nebet Het-Seshat? 

Yinepu and Wepwawet?  Wepwawet and Wepwawet-Ra?

Aset and Hethert?  Aset-Hethert? 

Heru and Khonsu? 

Heru Wer and Heru-sa-Aset?

Ra and Ra-Heru Akhety? 
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« Reply #1: March 08, 2009, 10:34:34 pm »


Yinepu and Wepwawet?  Wepwawet and Wepwawet-Ra?

The first one I can answer - Yinepu is often shown as a sitting jackal and Wepwawet as a standing jackal.  Also, Yinepu is black and Wepwawet is brown, white, and/or grey.

The second, I don't honestly know.
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« Reply #2: June 13, 2009, 05:36:30 am »

I preface this with the note that I am just an amateur archaeologist, motivated only by serving the gods.  What I know is from personal research.

This is a good question, as iconography was important to distinguish between different gods.  But answering this kind of question is difficult to do without mentioning history and syncretization.  A lot of your questions had to do with syncretized gods in which case either a combination of the iconography of the original gods would suffice as being that of the new gods', or it seems that either god's current form would remain the same and the name would be the only thing that changes.  This website seems to support my hypothesis, but that does not make it conclusive.  For example:

So what are differences in iconography with Amun and Amun-Ra? 

Depending on what time or area, Amun and Ra were considered the creator gods respectively.  But when Amun's cult became more popular it dominated the idea of Amun as creator god and Ra became syncretized with him in order to form Amun-Ra who was tolerated as the ultimate creator deity.  When I google him, though, I only get Amun in his human form, with the two plumed crown.

Quote
Atum and Atum-Ra? 

Same case as above.  Atum is pictured as a human with the double crown of Egypt, holding a was scepter.  Even if you google him, you get only the pictures of Atum.  I'm guessing the primary name takes precedence in iconography and manifestation.

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Nebet Het and Nebet Het-Seshat?

Same as above.

Quote
Yinepu and Wepwawet?  Wepwawet and Wepwawet-Ra?

The other poster aptly differentiated between Wepwawet and Yinepu.  I haven't yet heard of that syncretization between Wepwawet and Ra, however, but I would imagine it the same as above.

Quote
Aset and Hethert?  Aset-Hethert? 

This is one that has confused me a lot as well, because both share the bull horns with a sun disk in the middle.  But I think one of the ways to differentiate between the two is that Hethert also is sometimes pictured with cow ears.  I'm not sure if that's at the same time as having the horns.

Aset also has other icons, such as the throne upon her head, or wings for arms.  That latter can get confusing as Ma'at also is pictured with wings for arms, but the difference is that Ma'at is always pictured with an ostrich plume on her head, while Aset is not.

Sometimes I see her pictured with a vulture headdress, but I'm not sure if this is one of her icons.  She shares this with Nebthet, but the difference is that Nebthet is also pictured with the symbols for basket and house.

Quote
Heru and Khonsu? 

Depends on which Heru.  When Khonsu is in falcon form he can be differentiated from Heru-sa-Aset by the moon disc with its crescent.

Quote
Heru Wer and Heru-sa-Aset?

Heru Wer could be either a hawk with the white crown of Upper Egypt, or a hawk-headed man with the white crown of Upper Egypt.  Heru-sa-Aset is the same, but is pictured with the double crown.

Quote
Ra and Ra-Heru Akhety?

In this comparison, Ra will be a falcon-headed man with the uraeus enclosed sun disk.  The latter might be another example of the first god listed being the main form of the syncretization, but I'm not really sure.


Wow, that took a little time for the research, but was fun nonetheless.  I did my best to see that the answers were correct but I encourage personal research above all.  I'm still learning, myself.
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« Reply #3: June 19, 2009, 11:19:45 am »

Many times while looking at pictures or statuary it is hard to tell deities apart.  The people who sell these items don't help because oftentimes they mislabel them.  I've seen a Ma'ahes statue labeled as Sekhmet and a Yinepu or Wepwawet statue labeled as Isis. 

I recently bought a Ma'at statue mislabelled as Isis. The strange thing is that they had another statue that was exactly the same only standing up, which they had correctly labelled. Bizarre.

 
Quote
Yinepu and Wepwawet?

I would add that these two are sometimes just identical and it's only the hieroglyphs that name them.


Quote
Heru Wer and Heru-sa-Aset?

These two always bug me as I often find them wearing something that looks like the double crown but not... perfectly like the double crown. And I've seen people using it for Heru-Wer. The general rule is Heru-Wer wears the white crown, Heru-Sa-Aset wears the double. I think a Heru with no headdress tends to be Heru-Wer, as it strikes me as "old school Heru before we had to deal with this silliness", which is technically Heru-Wer, I think.


Quote
Ra and Ra-Heru Akhety?

Ra can be seen with a sun disc or a sun disc with uraeus, Ra-Heruakety can be seen as with a sun disc with uraeus or as having the Atef crown. If they're with their shared symbolism of the sun disc with uraeus, as with Wepwawet and Yinepu, give up and look for heiroglyphs. If it's a worry about statues though, so long as it meets their general requirements they tend to be happy.


I'm no expert though, indeed I got a lot of this from second hand knowledge and the Wepwawet Wiki. But certainly I have seen a lot of people saying "when in doubt, read glyphs". If there are no proper glyphs or you (like me Tongue) can't read them, their depiction rules are sometimes pretty flexible so go with whatever fits.
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