Cunningham?

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[angie v.]

Hello,  I agree with everyone on SRW, but what about Scott Cunningham?  How do you tell who is full of it and who isnt?

[Star]

Hello,  I agree with everyone on SRW, but what about Scott Cunningham?  How do you tell who is full of it and who isnt?

I can't speak to Cunningham's reliability, never having read his work myself.  In general, though, you might want to have a look at this article:
Scholarly Books and Lookalikes

[Rain]

I've only read one of his books years ago and cannot remember, but I do notice there are reviews of many of his books available on The Cauldron review section - http://www.ecauldron.com/bookstorepagan.php  Just go to that page and do a "Find" for Cunningham. 

[Ravyn]

Namaste,

My personal opinion of Scott Cunningham is an excellent one. He is a fabulous author and knows his stuff. I have not ever heard a bad review about him and many of the pagans and Wiccans I have talked with, friends and aquientences highly recommend him. From my experience it would seem that he gets glowing reviews and really is a must as far as it goes when exploring Wiccan literature.

Blessed Be,

Ravyn

[catja6]

Hello,  I agree with everyone on SRW, but what about Scott Cunningham?  How do you tell who is full of it and who isnt?

His history, and interpretations of same, are not very good at all.  However, he knows his plant lore, and accurately reports the folklore concerning the *magical* uses of plants.  (Just ignore his bizarre insistence that when hoodoo practitioners say "graveyard dirt," they really mean mullein. Nope, it's actual graveyard dirt.)  His Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs is his best work; the info he reports stacks up against that collected by folklorists.     

[Thorn]

Hello,  I agree with everyone on SRW, but what about Scott Cunningham?  How do you tell who is full of it and who isnt?

I've only read 2:

The Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs - I LOVE this book.  Use it constantantly.  (And am very pleased to hear Catja's endorsement.  She knows her folklore!) 

Wicca for the Solitary Practitioner - One of the better Wicca 101 books.  I reread this very recently.  His interpretation of the Rede leans very much towards "total pacificism" version, which as I've come to understand was not the actual intent, but other than that it was pretty good.

[Ravyn]

His history, and interpretations of same, are not very good at all.  However, he knows his plant lore, and accurately reports the folklore concerning the *magical* uses of plants.  (Just ignore his bizarre insistence that when hoodoo practitioners say "graveyard dirt," they really mean mullein. Nope, it's actual graveyard dirt.)  His Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs is his best work; the info he reports stacks up against that collected by folklorists.     

Namaste,

We must keep in mind, that during Cunninghams era the history of Wicca and of the Burning times was much different then it is now. History or at least the views we hold of it are constantly changing. At one time it was common belief that the Burning Times was a direct attact on Witches, today we have a much different view.

Margret Murray had linked Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism to a Mother Goddess cult 20,000 years ago in Europe, also purporting that there was a Matriarchal society at that time. All these things are not supported by modern archeology. You see our views of the past are always changing as we learn more from archeology. The history that Cunningham, Murray and the like from years ago report to us, are now part of our Mythology. It may not be historically accurate, but it still serves it purpose. What was true 20 years ago, is no longer true today, and what is true today may likely not be true in 10 years.

 As we advance as a society, as our science becomes more advance, as we learn more through archeology the whole paradim of our reality changes. Nothing is in stasis, not even history as we have been shown and nothing is seen exactly the same by two different people. We all see things in a different way and one persons truth is their own and will not be shared by everyone.

So let us not condemn the authors of the past because what they knew of the past is no longer seen as accurate. While at the sametime making a note that their historical view is no longer accurate and must be replaced by what we know to be the actual accounts. There is something of value to be found in all views as long as we rememeber that times and knowlege change.


Blessed Be,

Ravyn

[Raven]

     I too believe Scott Cunningham is one of the best Wiccan authors out there. He is by far the one who knows the area of Paganism quite well. His books are both humorous and wise. NO matter what the subject he goes into exquiste detail. Another thing I admire about him is that with his books you can be both a novice and an experienced Pagan to read his books. I believe he is in fact the most popular and best Pagan author out there. I would recommend him to everyone. Its a shame a great man is no longer with us, but his memory and dedication the the craft was and still inspires many Pagans to this very day. May his spirit live in us all.
Scott Cunningham June 27, 1956 – March 28, 1993

Blessed Be
Raven

[Aisling]

His Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs is his best work; the info he reports stacks up against that collected by folklorists.     

Agreed!!!  The herbal encyclopedia is one of my favorite magical reference books.  It's a must have if you plan to do herbal work.

[catja6]

Namaste,

We must keep in mind, that during Cunninghams era the history of Wicca and of the Burning times was much different then it is now. History or at least the views we hold of it are constantly changing. At one time it was common belief that the Burning Times was a direct attact on Witches, today we have a much different view.

Margret Murray had linked Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism to a Mother Goddess cult 20,000 years ago in Europe, also purporting that there was a Matriarchal society at that time. All these things are not supported by modern archeology. You see our views of the past are always changing as we learn more from archeology. The history that Cunningham, Murray and the like from years ago report to us, are now part of our Mythology. It may not be historically accurate, but it still serves it purpose. What was true 20 years ago, is no longer true today, and what is true today may likely not be true in 10 years.

 As we advance as a society, as our science becomes more advance, as we learn more through archeology the whole paradim of our reality changes. Nothing is in stasis, not even history as we have been shown and nothing is seen exactly the same by two different people. We all see things in a different way and one persons truth is their own and will not be shared by everyone.

So let us not condemn the authors of the past because what they knew of the past is no longer seen as accurate. While at the sametime making a note that their historical view is no longer accurate and must be replaced by what we know to be the actual accounts. There is something of value to be found in all views as long as we rememeber that times and knowlege change.


Blessed Be,

Ravyn

Yes, he was writing before Wiccan versions of history had been extensively questioned, and that's not his fault.  However, the info is still inaccurate, and needs to be pointed out as such.

[LyricFox]

Namaste,

We must keep in mind, that during Cunninghams era the history of Wicca and of the Burning times was much different then it is now. History or at least the views we hold of it are constantly changing. At one time it was common belief that the Burning Times was a direct attact on Witches, today we have a much different view.

Margret Murray had linked Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism to a Mother Goddess cult 20,000 years ago in Europe, also purporting that there was a Matriarchal society at that time. All these things are not supported by modern archeology. You see our views of the past are always changing as we learn more from archeology. The history that Cunningham, Murray and the like from years ago report to us, are now part of our Mythology. It may not be historically accurate, but it still serves it purpose. What was true 20 years ago, is no longer true today, and what is true today may likely not be true in 10 years.

 As we advance as a society, as our science becomes more advance, as we learn more through archeology the whole paradim of our reality changes. Nothing is in stasis, not even history as we have been shown and nothing is seen exactly the same by two different people. We all see things in a different way and one persons truth is their own and will not be shared by everyone.

So let us not condemn the authors of the past because what they knew of the past is no longer seen as accurate. While at the sametime making a note that their historical view is no longer accurate and must be replaced by what we know to be the actual accounts. There is something of value to be found in all views as long as we rememeber that times and knowlege change.


Blessed Be,

Ravyn

Ravyn,

You make it sound like Cunningham was writing decades ago. Much of what Cunningham passed along as history had already been debunked when he was writing.

[catja6]

Ravyn,

You make it sound like Cunningham was writing decades ago. Much of what Cunningham passed along as history had already been debunked when he was writing.

Well... to be fair, when Cunningham was writing in the 80s, the Murray thesis had been debunked among academics, but it hadn't necessarily trickled down to the general public yet -- hell, it *still* hasn't, but the debnking has been around long enough there's far less excuse for spouting Murray uncritically.  And the critiques of Gimbjutas-style Ancient Universal Matriarchy, outside of the field of archaeology, were pretty fresh -- respected folklorists like Jack Zipes will still invoking matriarchal cults in the 80s.  Scholarship moves slowly, and the general public's absorption of new scholarship is even slower.  That said, it's still important to point out that Cunningham's history is inaccurate.   

[LyricFox]

Well... to be fair, when Cunningham was writing in the 80s, the Murray thesis had been debunked among academics, but it hadn't necessarily trickled down to the general public yet -- hell, it *still* hasn't, but the debnking has been around long enough there's far less excuse for spouting Murray uncritically.  And the critiques of Gimbjutas-style Ancient Universal Matriarchy, outside of the field of archaeology, were pretty fresh -- respected folklorists like Jack Zipes will still invoking matriarchal cults in the 80s.  Scholarship moves slowly, and the general public's absorption of new scholarship is even slower.  That said, it's still important to point out that Cunningham's history is inaccurate.   

Catja,

I think Randall is going to have to come in on this because he's remembering something different here.

[catja6]

Catja,

I think Randall is going to have to come in on this because he's remembering something different here.

Murray had been critiqued for *years* among scholars, but the final nail in the Murray thesis's coffin was Cohn's Europe's Inner Demons, in 1975.  Even then, it took a while to reach the general public.  And archaelogists, and folklorists like Jacqueline Simpson, were critiquing the Matriarchy thesis in the 60s and 70s, as part of the general overturning of the cultural evolution theory.  But even in folklore, which is a big field, the matriarchy thesis  was still kicking around in some quarters -- as I said, Jack Zipes references it in passing in some of his fairy tale work in the 80s.  As for critiques of Wiccan versions of history, like Aiden Kelly's stuff, they hadn't really reached saturation point at the time Cunningham was writing.  Cunningham wasn't a scholar, so I don't find his spouting of the Wiccan version of history, complete with Murray and Matriarchy, to be all that outrageous *for the time he was writing*.  Still wrong though, and he should have done more careful work, as more accurate versions of history were starting to become accessible.  And I wish that the reissued versions of his stuff being published today had been updated to correct the history. 

[LyricFox]

Murray had been critiqued for *years* among scholars, but the final nail in the Murray thesis's coffin was Cohn's Europe's Inner Demons, in 1975.  Even then, it took a while to reach the general public.  And archaelogists, and folklorists like Jacqueline Simpson, were critiquing the Matriarchy thesis in the 60s and 70s, as part of the general overturning of the cultural evolution theory.  But even in folklore, which is a big field, the matriarchy thesis  was still kicking around in some quarters -- as I said, Jack Zipes references it in passing in some of his fairy tale work in the 80s.  As for critiques of Wiccan versions of history, like Aiden Kelly's stuff, they hadn't really reached saturation point at the time Cunningham was writing.  Cunningham wasn't a scholar, so I don't find his spouting of the Wiccan version of history, complete with Murray and Matriarchy, to be all that outrageous *for the time he was writing*.  Still wrong though, and he should have done more careful work, as more accurate versions of history were starting to become accessible.  And I wish that the reissued versions of his stuff being published today had been updated to correct the history. 

I'll be happy to refer future posts on history to you.

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