The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
April 20, 2021, 06:01:07 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 20, 2021, 06:01:07 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Earth Magic a seasonal guide to the old religion by Margaret McArthur  (Read 10016 times)
herbalgoddess13
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 08:07:55 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
TCN ID: herbalgoddess13
Posts: 1268


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: March 16, 2009, 02:05:03 pm »

I took a trip to the used book store this weekend and came home with a bag full of books.  Among them was a book called "Earth Magic a Seasonal Guide to the Old Religion" by Margaret McArthur.  I don't see a review on this book and when I searched I didn't see any comments on the forums.  I'm not sure what book to start with (I think I'm on overload right now), but after reading the introduction and first chapter I felt very drawn into it.  I'd love to hear if anyone else has read this book and they thought about it.  I like it because it doesn't seem to be a 'how too' book, but more about getting your body in-tune with the ebb and flow of the changing seasons.

I'm so thirsty for knowledge right now that I think I'm making myself nuts, but it seems the more I read the more I realize I don't know and the more I want to know (yes, that's confusing, but that's how my mind is working right now and I can't seem to slow it down).
Logged

“Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly.” ~ Neil Gaiman

My Blog

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Aster Breo
SIG Coordinator
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:January 29, 2013, 09:32:22 pm
United States United States

Religion: Feral Brighideach
TCN ID: Aster Breo
Posts: 5260


Avatar byJuni & Dania

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #1: March 16, 2009, 03:40:38 pm »

"Earth Magic a Seasonal Guide to the Old Religion" by Margaret McArthur

I'm not Wiccan, I don't do magic, and I haven't read this book.  But I wanted to reply because the title raised a big ol' red flag for me.  I just want to caution you to read anything claiming to have the goods on "the Old Religion" with a huge bag of salt.  You can find numerous threads here in which people far more knowledgeable than I explain just what's wrong with claims regarding religious practices or beliefs that have survived through the ages, particularly in Europe and particularly about witchcraft.

Flawed research in the early 20th Century (especially by Margaret Murray, and then later by Marija Gimbutas) led many people to believe that there is some kind of extant witchcraft tradition that somehow survived persecution (the "Burning Times"), and that ancient cultures all worshiped some kind of supreme Mother Goddess and were peaceful and totally in tune with the earth.  I'm sure you're aware that these claims have been soundly disproven, yet they persist in the popular press.

The title of the book you mention just rang those bells for me.

Anyway, that's just me $0.02 rant on the subject.   Wink
Logged

"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."  ~ George Bernard Shaw
herbalgoddess13
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 08:07:55 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
TCN ID: herbalgoddess13
Posts: 1268


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2: March 16, 2009, 04:43:21 pm »

Flawed research in the early 20th Century (especially by Margaret Murray, and then later by Marija Gimbutas) led many people to believe that there is some kind of extant witchcraft tradition that somehow survived persecution (the "Burning Times"), and that ancient cultures all worshiped some kind of supreme Mother Goddess and were peaceful and totally in tune with the earth.  I'm sure you're aware that these claims have been soundly disproven, yet they persist in the popular press.
Thank you, that's why I've been researching books before buying them.  There's just so much information out there and much of it is contradicting.  This book caught my eye because it she states in the intro that it's not a 'how too' book.  I've only read a few pages, but so far it's not 'hookie spookie' magic like a lot of books at the local chain bookstore.
Anyway, that's just me $0.02 rant on the subject.   Wink
That's about what I paid for it  :)than you very much for your thoughts.  The most difficult thing for me to do right now is focusing on one thing.  Learning about Paganism when you have ADD seems to be an oxymoron.
Logged

“Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly.” ~ Neil Gaiman

My Blog
Black0lSun
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:September 25, 2011, 06:40:19 pm
United States United States

Religion: Agnostic/inlimbo
Posts: 82


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #3: March 24, 2009, 12:44:01 am »

The most difficult thing for me to do right now is focusing on one thing.  Learning about Paganism when you have ADD seems to be an oxymoron.

I know exactly what you mean! I'm going to get thwacked so many times trying to talk to my goddess. lol
Logged

Expect the unexpected.. OMG A NINJA!
dragonfaerie
Coffee Goddess
Adept Member
*****
*
*
*
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 06:19:49 pm
United States United States

Religion: Witchcraft
TCN ID: dragonfaerie
Posts: 862


Priestess of the Circle of Amber Heart

Blog entries (0)

terpette terpette terpette
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4: March 24, 2009, 11:07:43 pm »

I'm sure you're aware that these claims have been soundly disproven, yet they persist in the popular press.

Ya know, someday when I've had more time to delve fully into the feminist goddess movement, we'll have to talk about how the "universal mother goddess" stuff is useful mythology even if it's not proven history. The more I read of it, the more value I can see there from that perspective.

Karen
Logged

Writings on Wicca & Witchcraft
Read my journal!
Today's Mood Forecast:
Fanboy's Convention List
herbalgoddess13
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 08:07:55 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
TCN ID: herbalgoddess13
Posts: 1268


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5: March 24, 2009, 11:25:25 pm »

Ya know, someday when I've had more time to delve fully into the feminist goddess movement, we'll have to talk about how the "universal mother goddess" stuff is useful mythology even if it's not proven history. The more I read of it, the more value I can see there from that perspective.

Karen
I'm still so new in studying and sometimes I feel like I'm going in circles trying to learn what's right and what feels right. 

I will say the book was very enjoyable, it was the authors views on the basics, nothing too deep or philosophical.  She had suggestions on how to become more in-tune with the elements and she gave a very visual explanation on casting a circle that really clicked for me without giving 'directions' on how to do it or specific things to say.  All-in-all, I'm glad I picked it up and found it really helpful.
Logged

“Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly.” ~ Neil Gaiman

My Blog
dragonfaerie
Coffee Goddess
Adept Member
*****
*
*
*
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 06:19:49 pm
United States United States

Religion: Witchcraft
TCN ID: dragonfaerie
Posts: 862


Priestess of the Circle of Amber Heart

Blog entries (0)

terpette terpette terpette
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6: March 24, 2009, 11:29:28 pm »

I'm still so new in studying and sometimes I feel like I'm going in circles trying to learn what's right and what feels right. 

Moon Ivy's definitely right in that you have to watch out what some authors will claim as fact, particularly with history. There is a lot of questionable stuff out there, some of which is only identifiable if you're already really familiar with the subject matter.

I'll keep an eye out for that book. I'm always on the lookout for stuff that brings new insight to basic concepts.

Karen
Logged

Writings on Wicca & Witchcraft
Read my journal!
Today's Mood Forecast:
Fanboy's Convention List
Aster Breo
SIG Coordinator
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:January 29, 2013, 09:32:22 pm
United States United States

Religion: Feral Brighideach
TCN ID: Aster Breo
Posts: 5260


Avatar byJuni & Dania

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #7: March 25, 2009, 02:03:15 am »

Ya know, someday when I've had more time to delve fully into the feminist goddess movement, we'll have to talk about how the "universal mother goddess" stuff is useful mythology even if it's not proven history. The more I read of it, the more value I can see there from that perspective.

Just to clarify  Smiley -- my post in reply to the OP was just to flag the potential for inaccurate history.  I wasn't expressing any opinion on the validity or usefulness of it as a myth.

I'm currently reading The Serpent and the Goddess: Women, Religion, and Power in Celtic Ireland, by Mary Condren, (c) 1989.  Although the author does not imply that all ancient cultures worshiped the One True Mother Goddesstm, she does discuss the transition from a matrilinear, polytheist culture to a male-centered warrior culture and then to a patriarchal monotheism in Ireland specifically.  Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to be able to judge whether the history she puts forth is accurate or skewed -- and I'd really love to have a better handle on that.  Nevertheless, the analysis of how the transition worked to disenfranchise women is very interesting.



Logged

"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."  ~ George Bernard Shaw
yewberry
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 02, 2014, 04:15:33 pm
United States United States

Posts: 2087

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #8: March 25, 2009, 02:35:12 pm »

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to be able to judge whether the history she puts forth is accurate or skewed -- and I'd really love to have a better handle on that.  Nevertheless, the analysis of how the transition worked to disenfranchise women is very interesting.

From the little bit of it I read a long time ago, I remember a distinct feeling of distaste.  Any book that the portrays early Celtic culture as proto-feminist utopia...well.

And I also recall she had some pretty dubious attributions in the footnotes, but I may be misremembering...

Brina
Logged
Matrinka
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:January 03, 2016, 12:36:32 pm
United States United States

Religion: Irish-Celtic witch
Posts: 1034


Níl aon tíntéan, mar do thíntéín féín.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: March 25, 2009, 02:37:42 pm »

early Celtic culture as proto-feminist utopia...well.

Only by comparison to some other cultures of that era.  Women had more rights in the early Celtic areas, generally speaking, than say Greek women did.  But that's not the same thing by any means.
Logged

herbalgoddess13
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 08:07:55 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
TCN ID: herbalgoddess13
Posts: 1268


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: March 25, 2009, 09:17:40 pm »

Just to clarify  Smiley -- my post in reply to the OP was just to flag the potential for inaccurate history.  I wasn't expressing any opinion on the validity or usefulness of it as a myth.
Moon Ivy, I just want to thank you.  You've responded to a few of my posts here and I really appreciate you taking the time to guide a newbie like myself.  It seems the more I learn the more I realize I don't know, so again, thanks  Smiley
Logged

“Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly.” ~ Neil Gaiman

My Blog
Aster Breo
SIG Coordinator
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:January 29, 2013, 09:32:22 pm
United States United States

Religion: Feral Brighideach
TCN ID: Aster Breo
Posts: 5260


Avatar byJuni & Dania

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #11: March 25, 2009, 09:17:57 pm »

From the little bit of it I read a long time ago, I remember a distinct feeling of distaste.  Any book that the portrays early Celtic culture as proto-feminist utopia...well.

And I also recall she had some pretty dubious attributions in the footnotes, but I may be misremembering...

Brina

I totally agree with your opinion about books that romanticize women's status in early Celtic culture, but I'm not sure I would describe this author's portrayal as proto-feminist utopia.  I think it's more about how the transition from polytheism (in which goddesses had important roles just as gods did) to monotheism (in which the only deity is male) disempowered women as it disempowered goddesses.  

OTOH, there is definitely too much in the way of reference to *The* Goddess, although I've been cutting the author a little slack and reading "The Goddess" as shorthand for "Goddesses".

All that said, I'm not even halfway through the book yet, so I have to reserve my opinion until I finish (which -- at the very slow rate I'm able to read these days -- will probably take months  Sad  ).  I've been making notes about which resources cited in the footnotes I want to run down, and that always takes a while, too.
Logged

"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."  ~ George Bernard Shaw
Aster Breo
SIG Coordinator
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:January 29, 2013, 09:32:22 pm
United States United States

Religion: Feral Brighideach
TCN ID: Aster Breo
Posts: 5260


Avatar byJuni & Dania

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #12: March 25, 2009, 09:22:42 pm »

Moon Ivy, I just want to thank you.  You've responded to a few of my posts here and I really appreciate you taking the time to guide a newbie like myself.  It seems the more I learn the more I realize I don't know, so again, thanks  Smiley

No problem.   Cheesy

I still consider myself a newbie in a lot of ways -- especially when I think about how much we *don't* know about the ancient Celts.  To a certain extent, we're all newbies.   Wink

Many people here and elsewhere have helped me by recommending reading, sharing their thoughts, challenging my assumptions, and just discussing stuff.  That's how we learn.  The least I can do is keep on paying it forward, so to speak.

Besides, I love talking about pretty much anything related to Brighid.  It's one of the best ways I learn and it really helps me to better define my own theories.
Logged

"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."  ~ George Bernard Shaw
dragonfaerie
Coffee Goddess
Adept Member
*****
*
*
*
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 06:19:49 pm
United States United States

Religion: Witchcraft
TCN ID: dragonfaerie
Posts: 862


Priestess of the Circle of Amber Heart

Blog entries (0)

terpette terpette terpette
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: March 26, 2009, 08:52:42 pm »

Nevertheless, the analysis of how the transition worked to disenfranchise women is very interesting.

I fondly hope to get a Masters degree someday studying the relationships between feminism, paganism, and goddess worship. But that's another topic for another time, I guess.

Karen
Logged

Writings on Wicca & Witchcraft
Read my journal!
Today's Mood Forecast:
Fanboy's Convention List
catja6
Board Staff
Staff
Adept Member
***
Last Login:November 28, 2020, 08:41:38 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Posts: 1119


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #14: March 26, 2009, 11:00:40 pm »

I fondly hope to get a Masters degree someday studying the relationships between feminism, paganism, and goddess worship. But that's another topic for another time, I guess.

Karen

Or right now, while I'm thinking abut it.  Cheesy  The University of Florida has a very famous "religion and nature" graduate program, and there are TONS of Pagan-friendly sorts.  And, this being academia, everyone's a feminist and supportive of feminist acholarship.
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.062 seconds with 53 queries.