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Author Topic: Do Your Goddesses/Gods or God Have a Plan?  (Read 11548 times)
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« Topic Start: March 30, 2009, 01:06:14 pm »

I was brought of Christian and was always taught that God had a plan not only for humanity as a whole but for me as an individual.  Many of the things that happened in my life or that didn't happen in my life were because of God's plan.  Not predestination, but if I chose to listen and follow I would be following God's plan for my life.

Do you think that other deities besides the Christian God work this way?  Do you believe that for instance, if you're one of the people that a deity contacted first that it was for some "higher" purpose if you will.

Also if you're one of the people that first initiated contact do you believe that the particular deity that you chose you chose for a reason?

To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?

I would comment with my thoughts on this but I really don't know what, or whom in for that matter, to believe just yet. 
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« Reply #1: March 30, 2009, 01:35:43 pm »

Do you think that other deities besides the Christian God work this way?  Do you believe that for instance, if you're one of the people that a deity contacted first that it was for some "higher" purpose if you will.

I think all the deities of my chosen pantheon (Greek) have their own agendas.  I'm not sure I would call those things "higher purposes", though.  They each have their own interests and their own ideas about what sort of things they want to happen, is all.  It doesn't always have to do with humanity's best interests, or the best interests of any given individual human.

Quote
Also if you're one of the people that first initiated contact do you believe that the particular deity that you chose you chose for a reason?

I honestly haven't the faintest clue.  I haven't, as yet, been given any particular assignment beyond simply tending the shrine.  It seems odd to get a personal thwap, and for a deity to invest as much time and attention as has been done for me, for no more reason than that--but any other reason is not currently forthcoming.  I guess I'll just have to wait and find out.

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To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?

For my life, personally?  I don't particularly.  I don't know how to express this properly...  I do think the Gods take an interest in individuals; if nothing else, I know too many people (mostly here) who have been taken an interest in.  But at the same time, I have a hard time seeing the Gods as being all that interested in making sure that the average human being's life goes any particular way.  Add to that the fact that I also don't think those called are "special" in any way (that is, they are average human beings), and what you get is...  yeah, one big steaming pile of contradiction.  Um.
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« Reply #2: March 30, 2009, 03:33:14 pm »

I was brought of Christian and was always taught that God had a plan not only for humanity as a whole but for me as an individual.  Many of the things that happened in my life or that didn't happen in my life were because of God's plan.  Not predestination, but if I chose to listen and follow I would be following God's plan for my life.

Do you think that other deities besides the Christian God work this way?  Do you believe that for instance, if you're one of the people that a deity contacted first that it was for some "higher" purpose if you will.

Also if you're one of the people that first initiated contact do you believe that the particular deity that you chose you chose for a reason?

To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?

I would comment with my thoughts on this but I really don't know what, or whom in for that matter, to believe just yet. 

I'm similar with Star, with an added pile of "and this too".

I think gods have plans just like humans have plans - but gods have a different viewpoint, and the plans reflect that.

I think gods have ideas as to how humanity should go, and push that about sometimes.  Sometimes they're right.  Sometimes they're wrong.  Sometimes, just like humans, they're bugfuck crazy.

F'ex, I think Apollo has definite plans.  Some of them I know I like.  Some of them I suspect I don't, really, but I don't have to deal with those.  Were I told to do something I disagreed with, I'd walk away.  (well, first I'd argue.  then I'd walk).  But even the plans I don't like doesn't mean those things are wrong.

That said, I don't think ANY god is responsible for, say, my carpal tunnel problems.  Or my stomach problems.  (and if a god was, damn straight I wouldn't do anything more for them, regardless of the reasons!)

One of the things about "God has a plan for your life" idea usually involves the idea that EVERYTHING is part of that plan - good and bad.  I really think most things that happen are just a case of human interactions and/or human interaction with nature.  I really don't think any gods are behind the nitty gritty details of my life - and if they are?

they need a life! Cheesy
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« Reply #3: March 30, 2009, 03:40:58 pm »


I think Dionysos' only plan is to just help us tear down unhealthy boundaries place on our self so we can be happy. Whatever that is.. varies from person to person. Its kind of simplistic and might sound a bit fluffy, but it gets a lot more complication when you start getting into things "normal" people could classify as "dangerous" (when more often than not they call it such because they don't understand it and have been told that its "dangerous" without any information).

I do have an inkling suspicion that when I got hit by a car, Someone didn't intervene (in fact if I had been delayed by 30 seconds it wouldn't have even happened). I was going to do something at the time I shouldn't have done. I ignored the warning (aka the half-tone piece of moving metal), and later on a lot of people got hurt. I took the hard way out of the situation.. but I also grew stronger from it. Although I would have liked to have taken the smarter way out, though. :p
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« Reply #4: March 30, 2009, 03:53:32 pm »



I don't know if My Lady or My Lord have a big masterplan.
If so, they haven't told me  Cheesy
(Which is ok because I don't think that this is my business.)

If they have plans for me?
Well, sometimes I feel like I'm a long-term project. Being nudged and shoved into certain directions.
So I guess, yes, they seem to have some plans with me, but what exactly - don't know yet.
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« Reply #5: March 30, 2009, 04:29:17 pm »

I don't know if My Lady or My Lord have a big masterplan.
If so, they haven't told me  Cheesy
(Which is ok because I don't think that this is my business.)

If they have plans for me?
Well, sometimes I feel like I'm a long-term project. Being nudged and shoved into certain directions.
So I guess, yes, they seem to have some plans with me, but what exactly - don't know yet.

This seems to fit best my experience.. With Odin, at least. Little nudges and suggestions that I can't understand where will end up. I trust that He has a plan, but He's not being very forthcoming about the eventual destination.

Gaia and Pan are simpler; She is mostly happy with me in the now, and He is pretty firm about what He desires of me (and although it would fit, the euphemistic, gutter-mind interpretation is not what I mean..). There are things I need to develop and learn in the case of body, physicality and senses, as well as clearly guiding me to working with letting go and - well I don't know how far into ecstatic practices He wants me, but we are working in that direction. (Eating blackberries as a form of ecstasy??? Almost better than sex...)

And then it seems They're kind of negotiating, because Odin approves - but wants me to equally work on focusing the energy developed. So maybe they've conspired to make a weird plan for me that I have no idea about, or else they're making it up as they go along...

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« Reply #6: March 30, 2009, 05:04:58 pm »

I'm similar with Star, with an added pile of "and this too".

Which is mostly, to tell you the truth, stuff Star was trying to get at anyway.  Smiley  The only exception being that I'm clueless about Apollo's plans.  I assume He's got plans about something, I guess, because who doesn't?--but I'm really unclear about how or if they actually involve me, or what they might be.

Quote
One of the things about "God has a plan for your life" idea usually involves the idea that EVERYTHING is part of that plan - good and bad.  I really think most things that happen are just a case of human interactions and/or human interaction with nature.  I really don't think any gods are behind the nitty gritty details of my life - and if they are?

This.  Especially this.  This is what I was trying to get at with my pile of contradiction.  Must be your day for custody of the brain.  Wink
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« Reply #7: March 30, 2009, 05:56:43 pm »

I think Dionysos' only plan is to just help us tear down unhealthy boundaries place on our self so we can be happy. Whatever that is.. varies from person to person. Its kind of simplistic and might sound a bit fluffy, but it gets a lot more complication when you start getting into things "normal" people could classify as "dangerous" (when more often than not they call it such because they don't understand it and have been told that its "dangerous" without any information).

I do have an inkling suspicion that when I got hit by a car, Someone didn't intervene (in fact if I had been delayed by 30 seconds it wouldn't have even happened). I was going to do something at the time I shouldn't have done. I ignored the warning (aka the half-tone piece of moving metal), and later on a lot of people got hurt. I took the hard way out of the situation.. but I also grew stronger from it. Although I would have liked to have taken the smarter way out, though. :p

Just to expand this a little more, as I realize now after an e-mail I didn't talk about it at all. I have had the nudge that I need to get into more serious practice (including to self-identifying, in a way, to the term "priestess"), and that there is something for me down the road that I am not exactly prepared for yet, but I'll know it when I get to it. I'm not terribly upset with that answer, but more along the lines that it's pushing me into getting into something more serious, just to find out what it is (I have a wicked curiosity streak Smiley ).
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« Reply #8: March 30, 2009, 08:35:02 pm »

I honestly haven't the faintest clue.  I haven't, as yet, been given any particular assignment beyond simply tending the shrine.  It seems odd to get a personal thwap, and for a deity to invest as much time and attention as has been done for me, for no more reason than that--but any other reason is not currently forthcoming.  I guess I'll just have to wait and find out.

I think that's one of my problems about trying to figure out what I exactly believe about deities, is the why?

I remember seeing a link to a comic somewhere on here, can't remember for the life of me where though, about a person asking one of the Netjer why they took an interest in humans, the Netjer replied, "Because we love you."  I'm sure that's the reason for some of them, but not all deities seem to be quite as benevolent as that according to their myths.  Not saying they don't care about us, but just don't show it as much.



One of the things about "God has a plan for your life" idea usually involves the idea that EVERYTHING is part of that plan - good and bad.  I really think most things that happen are just a case of human interactions and/or human interaction with nature.  I really don't think any gods are behind the nitty gritty details of my life - and if they are?

they need a life! Cheesy

Haha I agree, if they were behind every nitty gritty that would be a bit stalkerish.

So maybe they're not behind a majority of the happenings but are there some life changing events that they could be behind? 

Sometimes I wish things weren't so mysterious!

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« Reply #9: March 30, 2009, 09:16:00 pm »

I think that's one of my problems about trying to figure out what I exactly believe about deities, is the why?

I remember seeing a link to a comic somewhere on here, can't remember for the life of me where though, about a person asking one of the Netjer why they took an interest in humans, the Netjer replied, "Because we love you."  I'm sure that's the reason for some of them, but not all deities seem to be quite as benevolent as that according to their myths.  Not saying they don't care about us, but just don't show it as much.

Well, my theory (worth what you paid for it) is that the gods are closer to the Divine's viewpoint than we are.  Which means they've got a better idea what's going on than we do.

That doesn't mean they all FOLLOW what the Divine wants any more than we do.  But they have a better viewpoint and a better idea of putting it all together.

That viewpoint isn't always human-friendly - but I think that's changed somewhat as humanity's grown up, too.  Or I hope so.
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« Reply #10: March 31, 2009, 01:55:42 am »

I think that's one of my problems about trying to figure out what I exactly believe about deities, is the why?

Why which?  Why do the gods do what they do, take the interests they do?

My guess is a combination of "this one hears me", "this one might do what I want", and sheer amusement value.

Quote
I remember seeing a link to a comic somewhere on here, can't remember for the life of me where though, about a person asking one of the Netjer why they took an interest in humans, the Netjer replied, "Because we love you."  I'm sure that's the reason for some of them, but not all deities seem to be quite as benevolent as that according to their myths.  Not saying they don't care about us, but just don't show it as much.

Love is a funny sort of concept at times, too.  Keep in mind that whatever else may be the case, the gods are ... more abstract than we are, and have peculiarly focused attention.

I mean, if you wind up with Hethert's love and attention, the nudges are going to be towards things like beauty, ecstasy, finding the fundamental joy in the universe, and perhaps occasionally going postal on things that mess that up.  Because that's what She cares about.

If you wind up with Set's love and attention, what you'll get out of it will probably be a lot more like "How the hell am I supposed to deal with this mess?  Don't I have enough stress in my life?"  Because what He cares about is full of stuff like "What does not kill you makes you stronger", "Are you worthy of your position?", "Do you have the strength to handle this?", "Do you have the balls to stand up to me?", and "I could really use a good blowjob while I'm having my salad."


A friend of mine had Odin's love and attention for a while, and lost an eye in a car accident and got a whole lot of wisdom out of it.  There's a path of a god there, a guidance in His footsteps, an invitation offered and, in her case, declined.  One can see this as a gift; one can also see this as a "My %&*$# eye, you BASTARD."


With gods, you're dealing with something raw and elemental.  And the love of a raw element of sacrifice for the common need (a description of Tyr I've heard) is going to be very different from the love of a raw element of compassion (Kwan Yin) is going to be very different from the love of a raw element of the gates of life and death (the Ghede lwa).  That love is not going to be like human love at all, in many cases; the gods are not human.  The love of a god is a dangerous, alien thing at times - and what's best for someone by Their standards will often hurt like hell and not actually be physically possible by ours.
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« Reply #11: March 31, 2009, 03:07:58 am »

The love of a god is a dangerous, alien thing at times - and what's best for someone by Their standards will often hurt like hell and not actually be physically possible by ours.

Reminds me of a quote from the Narnia books about the resident divinity, Aslan; "He's not a tame lion!" I think that describes gods quite aptly. Only a very few of them can even be considered civilized by human standard. Pan finds the concept of 'scheduling wildness' to be utterly hilarious, but thankfully for me, he accepts that I have to.

And I'll be sure to inform Them that physical harm to me or my family means the deal is off! Thanks for the heads up about what They might do... I had never actually thought about that.

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« Reply #12: March 31, 2009, 08:29:04 am »

Reminds me of a quote from the Narnia books about the resident divinity, Aslan; "He's not a tame lion!" I think that describes gods quite aptly.

Most people, however, seem to want a "tame lion" over a "wild lion."  I have to wonder if this doesn't influence the popularity of religions.  Religions with Gods that are very predictable seem to be more popular.
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« Reply #13: March 31, 2009, 01:22:00 pm »


With gods, you're dealing with something raw and elemental.  And the love of a raw element of sacrifice for the common need (a description of Tyr I've heard) is going to be very different from the love of a raw element of compassion (Kwan Yin) is going to be very different from the love of a raw element of the gates of life and death (the Ghede lwa).  That love is not going to be like human love at all, in many cases; the gods are not human.  The love of a god is a dangerous, alien thing at times - and what's best for someone by Their standards will often hurt like hell and not actually be physically possible by ours.

So it varies widely by the particular deity?  If the love of a god hurts a lot and all, why even contact or listen to them, no disrespect to them but I don't think I can take any extra stress in my life at the moment haha.
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« Reply #14: March 31, 2009, 04:43:41 pm »

So it varies widely by the particular deity?  If the love of a god hurts a lot and all, why even contact or listen to them, no disrespect to them but I don't think I can take any extra stress in my life at the moment haha.

Very widely.  People are more similar to each other than gods are to each other -- we're all composite spirits, possessing a dense physical body, and constrained by a certain set of biological and social needs.  If we're mostly dealing with people from our own culture, or speaking our own language, or whatever other commonality, that similarity is even more thorough.

A god is not constrained by physical needs, and is the guardian of a particular cosmic truth.  Everything about any individual deity is a reflection of the truth that they are a part of.  This is where gods are simple and people aren't -- people have gazillions of truths and parts of truths kicking around, without any unifying required.  The more of a god's aspects and manifestations one can understand as the same thing, the deeper an understanding of the god one has; if one can't do this, one generally winds up kind of bewildered about what the god's 'about'.

Sometimes the bibs and bobs of truths people have are bits of a god's cosmic truth, or are particularly useful for promoting that truth; that will tend to draw a god's attention.  Sometimes people, finding the meanings in their lives, will latch on to pieces of a cosmic truth; that will tend to draw them towards the relevant gods.

I mean, for me, I don't know which way around these things tend to go.  I know that some of the things that I, whether naturally or through inspiration or just as a matter of circumstance of my life, am drawn to are: transitional and liminal spaces; challenge and initiation; creation and ensoulment; joy and nurturing.  It is not coincidental that the Kemetic gods that I hang with are Wepwawet, Set, Khnum, and Hetharu, each of Whom is interested in one set of those things.

And I don't get to be interested in challenge, strength, power, and initiation without having to wrestle with things, it's not possible to get one without the other.  So while hanging with Set is a pain in the ass at times, I find that it makes things somehow easier.  Often more of what they are, as being closer to the cosmic truths of Set makes for a lot of testing, but there's also the support of that truth available to me.  I'd have to deal with the stuff anyway.
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