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Author Topic: Do Your Goddesses/Gods or God Have a Plan?  (Read 11549 times)
Aster Breo
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« Reply #15: March 31, 2009, 05:54:33 pm »

A god is not constrained by physical needs, and is the guardian of a particular cosmic truthEverything about any individual deity is a reflection of the truth that they are a part of.  This is where gods are simple and people aren't -- people have gazillions of truths and parts of truths kicking around, without any unifying required.  The more of a god's aspects and manifestations one can understand as the same thing, the deeper an understanding of the god one has; if one can't do this, one generally winds up kind of bewildered about what the god's 'about'.

Darkhawk, you have a fascinating way of expressing things.  Cheesy

Can you elaborate on this concept, especially the part I quoted and the bolded phrase in particular?  I'm not familiar with the Kemetic gods you name, so I don't really see how they fit into your explanation.
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« Reply #16: March 31, 2009, 06:38:01 pm »

Darkhawk, you have a fascinating way of expressing things.  Cheesy

Can you elaborate on this concept, especially the part I quoted and the bolded phrase in particular?  I'm not familiar with the Kemetic gods you name, so I don't really see how they fit into your explanation.

This is actually something I got out of thinking about what I learned about "becoming a loa" in Vodou tradition - the process as I read it described involved 'purifying' away a lot of what it was to be human in order to approach a single, unified truth.  And as I thought about it, I basically came to the conclusion that gods were ... so very one precise thing that we humans have to see them in a variety of guises in order to be able to understand the precision.

An example, chosen because I've written about it most often:

I have an essay about Set in specific here.  But the short version: on one level, Set is "about" storms and darkness and desert.  On another level, Set is "about" deviation, the foreign, the strange, the perverted.  On another level, Set is "about" strength and solitude.  On another level, Set is "about" chaos, destruction, challenge.  On another level, Set is "about" the test of rulership, adulthood, evolving into one's power through overcoming obstacles.  On another level, Set is "about" the last stand against annihilation and the fundamental strength of being as opposed to unbeing.

Set's cosmic truth is, as best I can express it right now, The One Against The Nothingness.  While we combat annihilation primarily through the mechanisms of community - in our hearts, we are alone, and we must be the One there when facing that which would unravel us.  And Set demands that we acknowledge the other in our communities as part of that which is, because He is.  And He demands that we face the fear of the dark, the place with no water, the forces of chaos and destruction, not to break us, but so that we can prove ourselves unbreakable.

And, in a fit of my usual divination practices, as I write this, my music plays this:
http://www.free-lyrics.org/Cruxshadows/64710-Windbringer.html
One of the two best Set songs in the universe known to me.  (The other is "Eye of the Storm", and linked at the bottom there, 'cause they're on the same album.)

Me, I have The One Against The Nothingness as one of the truths that I work with.  I also have There Is Always A Way Out (which is not all of Wepwawet's truth, but a solid piece).  I have The World Is Fundamentally Beautiful (Hetharu).  I have ... no capacity to express the piece of Khnum's truth I deal with, it's a visual, kind brown hands cradling and shaping the form of the newborn sun.  I have a composite truth from these four about the nature of leadership and service, among other things.  I have Here Be Monsters (Lilitu), which is a major part of my relationship with my sister.  I strive for Beauty Fit To Extinguish Hell (Melek Ta'us).  I have flashes of Joyous Exuberance (Nimue).  If I were, someday, to become a god, I would have to distill from these pieces of truth a single truth, something that contains them and is whole on its own.  I can see the shape of what that could be, but I do not wish to be a god, so I do not pursue that sort of unity.  I like being composite too much.


If I said that the closest approximation I had to Brighid's cosmic truth is "bright fire on water" (which is a line of my Celt's devotional poetry for Her), would that help at all?  Smithcraft is heat and tempering; poetry is the flame of inspiration and the flow of resonance; hearth and healing are matters of fire and water; the sun sparkles on the sacred well.


(If this were a blog post, it would be keyworded 'madness in motion'.  All my mysticism is 'madness in motion'.)
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« Reply #17: March 31, 2009, 07:00:31 pm »

If I said that the closest approximation I had to Brighid's cosmic truth is "bright fire on water" (which is a line of my Celt's devotional poetry for Her), would that help at all?  Smithcraft is heat and tempering; poetry is the flame of inspiration and the flow of resonance; hearth and healing are matters of fire and water; the sun sparkles on the sacred well.

To me, I think (and this is an epiphany of just this moment -- thanks to your writing), Brighid's truth is "Making Whole".  The visual representation of fire on water -- the sun's myriad sparkles on the water's surface -- shows the whole of the light broken into countless pieces.  Smithcraft, poetry, healing, and justice (my understanding of the unity of Her traditional areas) are the ways to Make Whole, the different levels of Making Whole.  They bring the flames to bear in service of creating the essence of existence.

Wrapped up in that is something about the sacredness of the components of the Whole.  If the Whole is greater than the sum of the parts, then the parts must be of the purest stock possible:  the iron and tools of the forge, the wisdom and history of the poetry, the medicines and energies of healing, and the laws and officers of justice.  And something more:  a lesson that the Smith, Poet, Healer, and Law-Giver must be grounded in the same pure essence of Truth.

Yes, I think I can glimpse the idea you're conveying.

Thank you.
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« Reply #18: March 31, 2009, 08:00:42 pm »

To me, I think (and this is an epiphany of just this moment -- thanks to your writing), Brighid's truth is "Making Whole".  The visual representation of fire on water -- the sun's myriad sparkles on the water's surface -- shows the whole of the light broken into countless pieces.  Smithcraft, poetry, healing, and justice (my understanding of the unity of Her traditional areas) are the ways to Make Whole, the different levels of Making Whole.  They bring the flames to bear in service of creating the essence of existence.

*pockets a lightbulb and sneaks away quietly*

Thank you!
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« Reply #19: March 31, 2009, 08:18:11 pm »

*pockets a lightbulb and sneaks away quietly*

Thank you!

Don't thank *me*.  This was definitely a revealed epiphany.   Cheesy

There's a bit more (concerning things said to me in meditation), but I think that's supposed to be personal.
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« Reply #20: March 31, 2009, 10:20:46 pm »

And as I thought about it, I basically came to the conclusion that gods were ... so very one precise thing that we humans have to see them in a variety of guises in order to be able to understand the precision.

This is the most interesting idea I've seen about Gods in a very long time. How do you go about determining what a deity's "one cosmic truth" is from all the myths and stories about them. I'm looking at Athena who seems to be about many different things. I don't see much of a unity there, but I'm not used to looking for one, either.
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« Reply #21: March 31, 2009, 11:13:38 pm »

This is the most interesting idea I've seen about Gods in a very long time. How do you go about determining what a deity's "one cosmic truth" is from all the myths and stories about them. I'm looking at Athena who seems to be about many different things. I don't see much of a unity there, but I'm not used to looking for one, either.

The basic translation of your question, from my perspective, is "How do you walk the Mystery path of a god?" Wink  Because that's what finding these unities is, to me.  I can make gestures at them from what I know in the abstract, but that's not the same as sorting it out.

With Athena I'd probably start looking somewhere in the vicinity of "well-applied precision".  Covers craftwork, cleverness and artfulness, and tactics.  Precision corresponds smoothly with the epithet "bright-eyed", and could imply the sort of focused dedication that leads to Parthenos.  But that's only from general-knowledge of Her myths and titles, not the more specific and obscure stuff that can be Mystery keys.
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« Reply #22: March 31, 2009, 11:47:00 pm »

This is the most interesting idea I've seen about Gods in a very long time. How do you go about determining what a deity's "one cosmic truth" is from all the myths and stories about them. I'm looking at Athena who seems to be about many different things. I don't see much of a unity there, but I'm not used to looking for one, either.

That's exactly what I was trying to get at with my response re Brighid.  When I read Darkhawk's post, it was truly an epiphany -- complete with visions and sudden, not-me knowledge.  It was a sort of instant understanding that the unity that flows through the mythology and UPG and artistic renditions of the deity I know as Brighid is the concept of "Making Whole".  That idea/phrase appeared in my mind unbidden, along with some visual images of symbols that clarified and cemented it for me. 

In the context I was shown, it means finding all the separate pieces (literally locating them) and putting them together in a way that creates what is needed.  There might be other ways to combine the pieces, but the "right" way is the one that shines.  (I know that doesn't make any sense, but I can't find the right words.   Embarrassed )  For me, the glue -- or, in this case, the energy (magnetic attraction?  chemical bond?  mystical force that pulls the bits together?) -- is deity, specifically Brighid. 

It's also the idea of recognizing the tools needed to complete the creation, which (I think) is myself.  Or, in a larger sense, the person who is seeking.  It's clear that I can't do it alone.  Not only do I need help and guidance from deity, but I need actual tangible *things/objects* that will act as tools or -- more accurately -- as conductors or conduits of that force.  I guess I'm getting a sort of electrical analogy.  Not sure why.

Anyway, I can't adequately communicate this sudden understanding that was sparked by Darkhawk's post totally out of the blue.  I've been reeling all evening.

I'm not sure I could have gotten there in an intellectual way.

I'm really sorry that this post makes no sense.  I guess that's why it's called a Mystery.   Undecided
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« Reply #23: April 01, 2009, 08:45:37 am »

With Athena I'd probably start looking somewhere in the vicinity of "well-applied precision".  Covers craftwork, cleverness and artfulness, and tactics.  Precision corresponds smoothly with the epithet "bright-eyed", and could imply the sort of focused dedication that leads to Parthenos.  But that's only from general-knowledge of Her myths and titles, not the more specific and obscure stuff that can be Mystery keys.

Thank you, Darkhawk. That's a starting point for meditation and research. This is something that is very hard for me because I don't think in "short phrases"  Any description of the essence of Athena I would come up with on my own might be something I could eventually and with much effort shorten to a paragraph or three. Probably long paragraphs. It's the way my mind works -- and my inability to say things without "writing a book" can drive Lyric crazy at times.

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« Reply #24: April 01, 2009, 03:24:38 pm »

That's exactly what I was trying to get at with my response re Brighid.  When I read Darkhawk's post, it was truly an epiphany -- complete with visions and sudden, not-me knowledge.  It was a sort of instant understanding that the unity that flows through the mythology and UPG and artistic renditions of the deity I know as Brighid is the concept of "Making Whole".  That idea/phrase appeared in my mind unbidden, along with some visual images of symbols that clarified and cemented it for me. 

In the context I was shown, it means finding all the separate pieces (literally locating them) and putting them together in a way that creates what is needed.  There might be other ways to combine the pieces, but the "right" way is the one that shines.  (I know that doesn't make any sense, but I can't find the right words.   Embarrassed )  For me, the glue -- or, in this case, the energy (magnetic attraction?  chemical bond?  mystical force that pulls the bits together?) -- is deity, specifically Brighid. 

It's also the idea of recognizing the tools needed to complete the creation, which (I think) is myself.  Or, in a larger sense, the person who is seeking.  It's clear that I can't do it alone.  Not only do I need help and guidance from deity, but I need actual tangible *things/objects* that will act as tools or -- more accurately -- as conductors or conduits of that force.  I guess I'm getting a sort of electrical analogy.  Not sure why.

Anyway, I can't adequately communicate this sudden understanding that was sparked by Darkhawk's post totally out of the blue.  I've been reeling all evening.

I'm not sure I could have gotten there in an intellectual way.

I'm really sorry that this post makes no sense.  I guess that's why it's called a Mystery.   Undecided

In other words the deity can help you reach full potential and enlightenment for lack of a better word?

I never really thought of it that way, the gods can "complete" you in a certain sense.  That would be a good reason to seek them out. 
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« Reply #25: April 02, 2009, 02:03:05 am »

In other words the deity can help you reach full potential and enlightenment for lack of a better word?

I never really thought of it that way, the gods can "complete" you in a certain sense.  That would be a good reason to seek them out. 

Mmmmmm.........  I think it's really the idea that the essence of Brighid -- specifically Brighid; I don't have experience with any other god/desses -- is the concept of what came to me as "Making Whole".  That's my translation of what Brighid is "about", as Darkhawk put it.

Darkhawk said (on March 31):
Quote
If I said that the closest approximation I had to Brighid's cosmic truth is "bright fire on water" (which is a line of my Celt's devotional poetry for Her), would that help at all?  Smithcraft is heat and tempering; poetry is the flame of inspiration and the flow of resonance; hearth and healing are matters of fire and water; the sun sparkles on the sacred well.

Reading that opened me to an understanding that came to me forcefully and suddenly about Brighid and my relationship to Her.

I'm not sure that it's that *She* can make me whole or complete me.  I think it's more that She can help me make *myself* whole.

I think......

(NOTE TO MODS:  I couldn't figure out how to insert the quote from Darkhawk's post in a way that includes the linkback.  I replied to Spectacular Views's post, but wanted to quote Darkhawk.  But Darkhawk's post as too early in the thread to show up in the topic summary.  I ened up opening TC in another tab and copying the quote from there, but I don't know how to grab the linkback too.   Embarrassed )
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« Reply #26: April 02, 2009, 07:20:30 am »

(NOTE TO MODS:  I couldn't figure out how to insert the quote from Darkhawk's post in a way that includes the linkback.  I replied to Spectacular Views's post, but wanted to quote Darkhawk.  But Darkhawk's post as too early in the thread to show up in the topic summary.  I ened up opening TC in another tab and copying the quote from there, but I don't know how to grab the linkback too.   Embarrassed )

What I do is open the thread in another tab (as you did), hit quote/reply on the post I want to quote in that tab, and then copy/paste the resulting code into the first tab where I'm writing the actual reply.  Smiley
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« Reply #27: April 02, 2009, 03:12:03 pm »

What I do is open the thread in another tab (as you did), hit quote/reply on the post I want to quote in that tab, and then copy/paste the resulting code into the first tab where I'm writing the actual reply.  Smiley

Ah, yes.  That would have made sense.  I'll try to remember that for next time.

Thanks, Star!
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« Reply #28: April 02, 2009, 04:04:29 pm »


Wow.
*insert the i'm-really-impressed smilie here*

I finally found the time to really read this thread.
And somehow I don't think it's a coincidence after asking my Lady the other night, how to better understand her.
I really should stop to be surprised by such things by now.

Thank you so much Darkhawk.
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« Reply #29: April 02, 2009, 05:29:23 pm »

The more of a god's aspects and manifestations one can understand as the same thing, the deeper an understanding of the god one has; if one can't do this, one generally winds up kind of bewildered about what the god's 'about'.

Thank you for this entire post. 

This line made me realize something. 

Thanks for opening the way to illumination.   
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